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3rd October 2008, 03:31 AM
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 Ammo waste phase 2. Ammo conservation now this playstyle ports over to ring games also. Ok I gave you a clue before about as soon as you enter a pot your involved. Ive also told you about AMMO conservation. Table #10732253 - Great Keppel Island Starting Hand #534755090 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 00:26:57 Last Hand #534754451 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50 Button is at seat 7 Seat 1: waylay - $42.31 Seat 2: 2020fox - $97.97 Seat 3: TheSudaka - $50 Seat 4: Elfeneko - $114.84 Seat 5: CygnusX1 - $22.47 Seat 6: francis50 - $62.73 Seat 7: ttearn - $31.32 Seat 8: Mikino - $0 (away from table) Seat 9: PokerrPro - $69.70 (away from table) Seat 10: Bagar3n - $81.47 Moving Button to seat 10 waylay posts small blind ($0.25) 2020fox posts big blind ($0.50) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Kd Qh] to waylay TheSudaka folds Elfeneko raises to $2 CygnusX1 folds francis50 folds ttearn folds Bagar3n calls $2 waylay folds 2020fox calls $2 Dealing Flop [7d 9d 4h] 2020fox checks Elfeneko checks Player [Mikino] rebuys $50 Bagar3n bets $3 2020fox folds Elfeneko folds Taking Rake of $0.31 from pot 1 Bagar3n doesn't show Bagar3n wins $5.94 Seat 1: waylay - $42.06 Seat 2: 2020fox - $95.97 Seat 3: TheSudaka - $50 Seat 4: Elfeneko - $112.84 Seat 5: CygnusX1 - $22.47 Seat 6: francis50 - $62.73 Seat 7: ttearn - $31.32 Seat 8: Mikino - $50 Seat 9: PokerrPro - $69.70 Seat 10: Bagar3n - $85.41 End Of Hand #534755090 + 1 fold point saved $1.75 After reviewing this hand you may wonder? like you have before. To me it's simple as soon as you enter a pot your involved. I know this hand is a problem and hard to bet unless you get 2 pair or a str8, Im out of position so why involve myself? The ultimate theroey here is that Im not going to play KQ for that amount when I can play it again 1.75 more times in a better situation. So why involve yourself. Once you involve yourself you get urges to bluff sometimes. Fold points give the sniper his edge and the best thing is they dont cost you 1 penny to aquire. As I told you the regular soldier is afraid of Snipers. The more fold points you have the more ppl know theres a sniper. You want them to know it's ok. The more you fold the more respected you are later on. youve also got that AMMo for later on now.Minimal loss. If your going to encounter a loss you want it to be minimal. Why ? so you can use what you got left to get it back. Not give them more. Ammo conservation. Table #10717775 - The Beeches Starting Hand #534751381 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 00:21:48 Last Hand #534749991 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.10/$0.25 Button is at seat 3 Seat 1: ttearn - $2.70 Seat 2: TonisPizza - $30.78 Seat 3: mamut19 - $48.67 Seat 4: jimm52 - $21.87 Seat 5: waylay - $28.83 Seat 6: benafflec - $5.01 Seat 7: pokerrrrr - $41.41 Seat 8: mashupsoldier - $23.50 Seat 9: Hansaan - $24 Seat 10: montolio - $11.25 Moving Button to seat 4 waylay posts small blind ($0.10) benafflec posts big blind ($0.25) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [2h Ah] to waylay pokerrrrr calls $0.25 mashupsoldier folds Hansaan calls $0.25 montolio folds TonisPizza calls $0.25 mamut19 calls $0.25 jimm52 calls $0.25 waylay calls $0.25 benafflec checks Dealing Flop [5h 9d 6h] waylay checks benafflec bets $0.25 pokerrrrr calls $0.25 Hansaan calls $0.25 TonisPizza calls $0.25 mamut19 raises to $2.25 jimm52 folds waylay folds benafflec calls $2.25 pokerrrrr folds Hansaan folds TonisPizza folds Dealing Turn [3d] benafflec checks mamut19 bets $4 benafflec says thank you. benafflec calls $2.51 (all-in) Returning $1.49 to mamut19 uncalled mamut19 shows [7s 8s] benafflec shows [7h Th] Dealing River [3s] Taking Rake of $0.60 from pot 1 mamut19 has Straight, 9 high mamut19 wins $11.42 with: Straight, 9 high Seat 1: ttearn - $2.70 Seat 2: TonisPizza - $30.28 Seat 3: mamut19 - $55.08 Seat 4: jimm52 - $21.62 Seat 5: waylay - $28.58 Seat 6: benafflec - $0 Seat 7: pokerrrrr - $40.91 Seat 8: mashupsoldier - $23.50 Seat 9: Hansaan - $23.50 Seat 10: montolio - $11.25 End Of Hand #534751381 Not chasing something is AMMO conservation. Seeing a turn gives ya more outs even though a 4's no good to ya. By not involving yourself you dont get urges to give them even more $. you save even more ammo to use later. + 1 fold point. by folding for this bet we can play A2 suited 9 more times. It's an easy fold anyway. Soon as you hear chase, maybe, possibly, coming into your mind your taking risk needlessly. Table #10732253 - Great Keppel Island Starting Hand #535221339 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 16:38:00 Last Hand #535220376 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50 Button is at seat 9 Seat 1: Walshieblue - $70.19 Seat 2: waylay - $23.32 Seat 4: nectrust - $11.73 Seat 5: EnoPants - $17.34 Seat 6: rootsista - $11.20 Seat 7: MASSO75 - $53.90 Seat 8: redmarhgm - $58.54 Seat 9: allpat - $60.39 Seat 10: 2020fox - $69.58 Moving Button to seat 1 waylay posts small blind ($0.25) nectrust posts big blind ($0.50) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards EnoPants says thank you. Dealing [Ah Kc] to waylay EnoPants folds rootsista folds MASSO75 calls $0.50 redmarhgm calls $0.50 allpat folds 2020fox folds Walshieblue calls $0.50 waylay calls $0.50 nectrust checks Dealing Flop [Qc 8s 9c] waylay checks nectrust checks MASSO75 bets $0.50 redmarhgm folds Walshieblue calls $0.50 waylay folds nectrust calls $0.50 Dealing Turn [Kd] nectrust checks MASSO75 bets $0.50 Walshieblue did not respond in time and is folded Walshieblue folds nectrust calls $0.50 Dealing River [8d] nectrust checks MASSO75 bets $1 nectrust folds Taking Rake of $0.25 from pot 1 MASSO75 shows [Jh Td] MASSO75 has Straight, King high MASSO75 wins $4.75 Seat 1: Walshieblue - $69.19 Seat 2: waylay - $22.82 Seat 4: nectrust - $10.23 Seat 5: EnoPants - $17.34 Seat 6: rootsista - $11.20 Seat 7: MASSO75 - $57.15 Seat 8: redmarhgm - $58.04 Seat 9: allpat - $60.39 Seat 10: 2020fox - $69.58 End Of Hand #535221339 Not call a min bet are you crazy? No. why when I can play AK again and see a different flop. Ammo conservation. Why not raise AK then you say? Minimal loss and battle field awareness. + 1 fold point AK is not this great hand you all think it is. It's a hand Ive seen lots of people lose lots of $ with. Minamal loss IF you got a hand your not sure of the best thing to do is see what every one else does first. Once you put money into a pot your involved. Not only that you now open up the opportunity for some to make you stick even more in. So if you stick the minmal amount in if he raises you you now have a choice as to call a raise rather than a reraise. Minimizing your loss. the theroy is if you don't lose it here now you can double it later on because you still have it. Table #10717775 - The Beeches Starting Hand #534779625 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 01:07:51 Last Hand #534778830 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.10/$0.25 Button is at seat 8 Seat 1: dominator99 - $15.19 Seat 2: TonisPizza - $25.18 Seat 3: mamut19 - $64.60 Seat 4: jimm52 - $4.67 Seat 5: waylay - $26.08 Seat 6: MattBundy - $31.84 Seat 7: pokerrrrr - $55.61 Seat 8: pappillion1 - $10.23 Seat 9: Hansaan - $20.51 Seat 10: montolio - $12.47 Moving Button to seat 9 montolio posts small blind ($0.10) dominator99 posts big blind ($0.25) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Kc Qh] to waylay TonisPizza folds mamut19 folds jimm52 folds waylay calls $0.25 MattBundy calls $0.25 pokerrrrr calls $0.25 pappillion1 folds Hansaan calls $0.25 montolio folds dominator99 checks Dealing Flop [8c 9c Qc] dominator99 checks waylay checks MattBundy checks pokerrrrr checks Hansaan checks Dealing Turn [2s] dominator99 checks waylay checks MattBundy bets $1 pokerrrrr folds Hansaan folds dominator99 folds waylay calls $1 Dealing River [9h] waylay checks MattBundy bets $1.50 waylay is thinking. waylay calls $1.50 Taking Rake of $0.31 from pot 1 MattBundy shows [Ts Js] MattBundy has Straight, Queen high waylay shows [Kc Qh] waylay has Two Pairs: Queens, 9s MattBundy wins $6.04 with: Straight, Queen high Seat 1: dominator99 - $14.94 Seat 2: TonisPizza - $25.18 Seat 3: mamut19 - $64.60 Seat 4: jimm52 - $4.67 Seat 5: waylay - $23.33 Seat 6: MattBundy - $35.13 Seat 7: pokerrrrr - $55.36 Seat 8: pappillion1 - $10.23 Seat 9: Hansaan - $20.26 Seat 10: montolio - $12.37 End Of Hand #534779625 The Kill shoT When you get your $ in you want to make sure You have the best hand Until then using ammo conservation, minimal loss and battlefield awarenessis your best bet. Again once you raise it gives the opportunity to be reraised. You've involved yourself. If your going to involve your self you best be pretty sure. Table #10758584 - Tournament #6992999 Table #77 Starting Hand #535181140 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 15:56:38 Last Hand #535180042 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: TOURNAMENT Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS Blinds are now $10/$20 Button is at seat 8 Seat 1: 1lessandro - $1,530 Seat 2: bigal49 - $2,030 Seat 3: vogueur - $1,200 Seat 4: s0lly - $200 Seat 5: Bl4ckR3aper44 - $1,100 Seat 6: PersianCat - $1,200 Seat 7: xxalyssaxx - $1,200 Seat 8: Courage86 - $1,190 Seat 9: waylay - $1,170 Seat 10: drapa - $1,180 Moving Button to seat 9 drapa posts small blind ($10) 1lessandro posts big blind ($20) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Th Td] to waylay 1lessandro thinks that was a good call. bigal49 raises to $100 vogueur folds s0lly suggests you bring it on. s0lly raises to $200 (all-in) Bl4ckR3aper44 folds PersianCat folds xxalyssaxx folds Courage86 folds bigal49 remarks on that being unlucky. waylay calls $200 drapa calls $200 1lessandro calls $200 bigal49 calls $200 Dealing Flop [8s Tc 5s] drapa checks 1lessandro checks bigal49 bets $1,830 (all-in) waylay calls $970 (all-in) drapa calls $980 (all-in) waylay suggests you bring it on. s0lly suggests you bring it on. waylay suggests you bring it on. 1lessandro says hi. s0lly suggests you bring it on. s0lly smiles. bigal49 knows a good bet when he sees one. waylay cheers. 1lessandro folds Returning $850 to bigal49 uncalled bigal49 shows [Ts Ad] s0lly shows [As Kc] waylay shows [Th Td] drapa shows [3s Ks] Dealing Turn [7d] Dealing River [8d] bigal49 has Two Pairs: 10s, 8s bigal49 wins $20 from side pot #2 with: Two Pairs: 10s, 8s waylay has Full House, 10s over 8s waylay wins $2,910 from side pot #1 with: Full House, 10s over 8s waylay says sweet. waylay wins $1,000 with: Full House, 10s over 8s Seat 1: 1lessandro - $1,330 Seat 2: bigal49 - $870 Seat 3: vogueur - $1,200 Seat 4: s0lly - $0 Seat 5: Bl4ckR3aper44 - $1,100 Seat 6: PersianCat - $1,200 Seat 7: xxalyssaxx - $1,200 Seat 8: Courage86 - $1,190 Seat 9: waylay - $3,910 Seat 10: drapa - $0 End Of Hand #535181140 Even if your not sure but have a fair degree of certainty you have to take the shot. Table #10732253 - Great Keppel Island Starting Hand #534753297 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 00:24:23 Last Hand #534751734 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50 Button is at seat 6 Seat 1: waylay - $22.25 Seat 2: 2020fox - $97.97 Seat 3: TheSudaka - $49.50 Seat 4: Elfeneko - $117.34 Seat 5: CygnusX1 - $22.47 Seat 6: francis50 - $63.23 Seat 7: ttearn - $30.57 Seat 8: Mikino - $19.14 Seat 9: PokerrPro - $69.70 (away from table) Seat 10: Bagar3n - $82.22 Moving Button to seat 7 Mikino posts small blind ($0.25) Bagar3n posts big blind ($0.50) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Jh Jc] to waylay waylay calls $0.50 2020fox folds TheSudaka folds Elfeneko calls $0.50 CygnusX1 folds francis50 calls $0.50 ttearn folds Mikino raises to $2.50 Bagar3n folds Player [TheSudaka] rebuys $0.50 waylay calls $2.50 Elfeneko calls $2.50 francis50 folds Dealing Flop [8c 5h 5s] Mikino bets $16.64 (all-in) waylay can't believe it. CygnusX1 chuckles. waylay calls $16.64 Elfeneko folds waylay shows [Jh Jc] Mikino shows [Kd Ah] Dealing Turn [Qh] Dealing River [6d] Taking Rake of $2.08 from pot 1 Mikino has One Pair: 5s waylay has Two Pairs: Jacks, 5s waylay wins $39.70 with: Two Pairs: Jacks, 5s Seat 1: waylay - $42.81 Seat 2: 2020fox - $97.97 Seat 3: TheSudaka - $50 Seat 4: Elfeneko - $114.84 Seat 5: CygnusX1 - $22.47 Seat 6: francis50 - $62.73 Seat 7: ttearn - $30.57 Seat 8: Mikino - $0 Seat 9: PokerrPro - $69.70 Seat 10: Bagar3n - $81.72 waylay says sweet. CygnusX1 chuckles. End Of Hand #534753297 No raise JJ preflop UTG you say. Minaml loss. the thing about minimal loss is its minimal. If you raise you can encounter a reraise. It gives you an opportunity to see what everyone else does at very low cost. Now when you have a hand that you feel is worthy of calling it didn't cost you your whole stack to be more certain about your hand because you encountered a reraise. Now you have battlefield awareness at minimal loss. Now as I said PPl are afraid of snipers. you do gotta take risks bring your fold points into play once in awhile also. Table #10671369 - Octavia Starting Hand #531727501 Start time of hand: 28 Sep 2008 22:34:43 Last Hand #531726987 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50 Button is at seat 3 Seat 1: 22NemA - $40.90 Seat 2: francis50 - $18.22 Seat 3: UMBRO13 - $70.45 Seat 5: Megatwins - $50.80 (away from table) Seat 8: RidderSvane - $27.14 Seat 9: waylay - $26.74 Seat 10: Krebskasper - $276.17 Moving Button to seat 3 RidderSvane posts small blind ($0.25) waylay posts big blind ($0.50) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [2h 3h] to waylay Krebskasper did not respond in time and is folded Krebskasper folds 22NemA folds francis50 folds UMBRO13 folds RidderSvane calls $0.50 waylay checks Dealing Flop [Th Ts 5h] RidderSvane bets $1.50 waylay calls $1.50 Dealing Turn [7c] RidderSvane bets $1.50 waylay raises to $3 RidderSvane calls $3 Dealing River [Ac] RidderSvane checks waylay bets $10 RidderSvane folds Taking Rake of $0.50 from pot 1 waylay shows [2h 3h] waylay has One Pair: 10s waylay wins $9.50 Seat 1: 22NemA - $40.90 Seat 2: francis50 - $18.22 Seat 3: UMBRO13 - $70.45 Seat 5: Megatwins - $50.80 Seat 8: RidderSvane - $22.14 Seat 9: waylay - $31.24 Seat 10: Krebskasper - $276.17 End Of Hand #531727501 But you said dont chase flushes or bluff? No I said don't do it stupidly. If you got a read on your opponent IN this case I knew he didn't have the ten he would never bet it out like that with his playstyle.When you think you can use your fold points then go for it once in awhile. Thats what fold points are for. The greatest thing about a sniper is when they shoot ppl usually run. ( ypu can bluff at will) Battlefield awareness. Your best chance is to see a flop if you don't have AA. This gives you an overview now as to what the battlefield looks like (board) Now you can make a more informed decision about your hand. Even a big raise preflop from someone and you look down at KK. If you use minimal loss and battlefield awareness together you minimize the damage If an A flops. You also havn't given away your hand strength and have a nice little trap set up If one doesn't, and you dont get unlucky. You've encountered minimal loss and can now make a decision based on battlefield awareness. The Silent ones are the one you gotta watch out for. Snipers are respected honestly(folded alot now playing a hand). now the problem with that is that when they fire people run. So they have to set up traps. The check. using minimal loss and battlefield awareness together usually the best move is check. Why because if your strong you want to trap them. If you fire there going to run. If your weak you want to minimize your losses. but theres a deeper thing going on in the background. When other people see that you limp with big hands (minamal loss) and your standard move after wards is check even with the nuts. They dont have the foggiest clue as to how to read you. Your camoflauged. All they know is that theres a sniper out there. So if they shoot they may be getting zoomed in on for doing so. The only problem with this style is you do give out an opportunity to be out drawn. But if you use battlefield awareness you can still encounter minimal loss even then. I know what most of yous are already going to say. You not maximizing your profit. Yes but I am minimizing my damages. I also save the ammo for a better shot. Dam yins. Phase 3 goes into soldier types
__________________ Out to lunch Last edited by Krahsami; 3rd October 2008 at 06:04 AM.  |
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3rd October 2008, 04:37 AM
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| I'll say this. Ring games are different from tournaments. Having many times the BB is very different than having 5-7 times the BB. That is all. |
Pinch Hitter Champion!|
3rd October 2008, 05:20 AM
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| I just have to ask you this, Krahsami...please don't take offense because I'm not poking at you or anything...I just have to know...are you an RPG player by chance? Because I am and the more I read these posts of yours the more and more they sound like an RPG more than a poker game...like the +1 fold points, etc...that's the only reason I had to ask. 
__________________     ~Lady~ "Most of the money you'll win at poker comes not from the brilliance of your own play, but from the ineptitude of your opponents." - Lou Krieger |
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3rd October 2008, 05:42 AM
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| You don't like to gamble but you bluff with 23o?.........the JJ call is standard, nothing special about that. I am still waitting to see something that will blow my socks off with this sniper theory of yours your looking less like a sniper and more like a mini-gun.
__________________ I Bling in my Wyte tee, I win MTTs in my Wyte tee, all in the club, I take down massive pots in my Wyte tee.  |
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3rd October 2008, 06:10 AM
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| Yes I used to D&D You dont understand. you have to make the read. Fold points are there for a reason. To make you fear the sniper. You didn't get all those points for nothing. Soon as theres fear theres uncertainty. when you watch some 1 play for awhile you get a read on them. Well I watched him. You know what else he watched me and I had 12 fold points. I didn't say I don't bluff. I said I don't do it stupidly. All you have to do is look. it's right there in front of you. How can you not see it? When you make the right read and then add your fold points in you SCARE ppl. Why because there scared of snipers. Table #10752477 - Celestial Spirit Starting Hand #535835893 Start time of hand: 03 Oct 2008 05:41:19 Last Hand #535835606 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.05/$0.10 Button is at seat 1 Seat 1: auricus - $12.41 Seat 2: NOCKIO - $11.19 Seat 3: SamSufy - $4.55 Seat 4: waylay - $10.17 Seat 6: 4dtreboles - $16.62 Seat 7: Tommy168 - $30 Seat 8: DiogeneD - $8 Seat 10: 7MARCUS7 - $4.56 Moving Button to seat 2 SamSufy posts small blind ($0.05) waylay posts big blind ($0.10) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards waylay winks. Dealing [Th Js] to waylay 4dtreboles folds Tommy168 raises to $0.40 DiogeneD folds 7MARCUS7 folds auricus folds NOCKIO folds SamSufy calls $0.40 waylay calls $0.40 Dealing Flop [6d 8c Qh] SamSufy checks waylay checks Tommy168 bets $0.80 SamSufy folds waylay calls $0.80 Dealing Turn [3c] waylay bets $0.80 Tommy168 calls $0.80 Dealing River [Kh] Player [SamSufy] rebuys $5.65 waylay bets $4.40 Tommy168 folds Taking Rake of $0.44 from pot 1 waylay shows [Th Js] waylay has High Card: King DiogeneD laughs out loud. waylay wins $3.96 Seat 1: auricus - $12.41 Seat 2: NOCKIO - $11.19 Seat 3: SamSufy - $9.80 Seat 4: waylay - $12.13 Seat 6: 4dtreboles - $16.62 Seat 7: Tommy168 - $28 Seat 8: DiogeneD - $8 Seat 10: 7MARCUS7 - $4.56 End Of Hand #535835893 Of course I bluff. you have to. but you can do it smart or stupid. If you got the right read and right amount of fold points ( respect) you can bluff at will usually if your a sniper as long as the other guy doesn't have a hand. Now why did I show them my hand? because I want to put that uncertainty in there mind. Why? so they don't fear the sniper as much next time. Thats physcoligical though and a whole new phase. I show my hand half the time usually. you know why though? because I'm not afraid to. And I want them to see it. I want them to have that information, to enforce an image. You guys are all stuck up on evaluating the hands. The hands are only examples to explain hopefully what I am trying to say. the words. read the words also. Keep an open mind. this might explain it more I want them to think this. Table #10752477 - Celestial Spirit Starting Hand #535855547 Start time of hand: 03 Oct 2008 07:33:09 Last Hand #535855319 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.05/$0.10 Button is at seat 8 Seat 2: SweetAngeleyes - $5.70 Seat 3: Betso - $2.50 Seat 4: waylay - $3.89 Seat 5: tonafita - $5.71 Seat 6: PinkEvilMonkey - $42.73 Seat 7: leighleo - $13.26 Seat 8: irihka - $7.95 Seat 9: tolac - $10 Seat 10: ketasztkerek - $7.70 Moving Button to seat 10 SweetAngeleyes posts small blind ($0.05) Betso posts big blind ($0.10) tolac posts $0.10 Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [6c 7h] to waylay tonafita: r u shagin the dealer pink ? PinkEvilMonkey: not only woman SweetAngeleyes: yeah i would think so SweetAngeleyes laughs his *** off. waylay calls $0.10 tonafita calls $0.10 PinkEvilMonkey folds leighleo folds irihka folds tolac raises to $0.30 tonafita: every pair he makes trips on flop.... ffs ketasztkerek calls $0.30 SweetAngeleyes folds Betso calls $0.30 waylay calls $0.30 tonafita calls $0.30 Dealing Flop [8h 8c 4s] PinkEvilMonkey: i lost a lot too this night Betso checks waylay checks Player [***NO PLAYER***] brings $5 to table [10752477] tonafita checks ifukinghatepoker: stop fukin greetin tonafita SweetAngeleyes: maybe you must play higher pink its your lucky day tolac bets $0.30 ketasztkerek calls $0.30 Betso folds tonafita: hes lucky as fck scott waylay raises to $0.60 PinkEvilMonkey: but first place in 2 tourneys and second in 3^^ tonafita folds tolac calls $0.60 SweetAngeleyes: omg PinkEvilMonkey: no chance ketasztkerek folds Dealing Turn [As] waylay bets $2.99 (all-in) ifukinghatepoker: hmm shuttin down SweetAngeleyes: shutting us down? tolac folds Taking Rake of $0.30 from pot 1 SweetAngeleyes: yeah waylay shows [6c 7h] waylay has One Pair: 8s waylay wins $2.75 Seat 1: mrsifters - $5 Seat 2: SweetAngeleyes - $5.65 Seat 3: Betso - $2.20 Seat 4: waylay - $5.74 Seat 5: tonafita - $5.41 Seat 6: PinkEvilMonkey - $42.73 Seat 7: leighleo - $13.26 Seat 8: irihka - $7.95 Seat 9: tolac - $9.10 Seat 10: ketasztkerek - $7.10 End Of Hand #535855547 Fold points will win you a pot later at the right time.As I said A min raise from some one your scared of or respect is worth more than the biggest raise in the world. Now why bluff there? easy? table image. again as I was saying when you play long enough with some one you get a read on em. I knew I was a blind and I also knew he wouldn't bet out the 8 if he had it. NOW I USE my fold points. I know hes afraid of snipers. I callled with lots of fold points. I say don't get involved without premium hands right. Not always. You save these points for a reason. You don't go using em willy nilly. If your going to make a bluff you might as well make it worth it and take down a pot not just the blinds. You wait for that exact moment where you can use the combination of fold points & battle field awareness. fold points is scaring him basically the more you folded the more hes going to be scared when your in the pot. Now looking at the board I see 2 8's. Battle field awareness tells me he doesn't have an 8. Now I represent that I do using fold points and battle field awareness. Simple when really thought about. U can bluff smart or stupid. Now the physcology aspect kicks in 2 mins later. Why fear the sniper. Table #10752477 - Celestial Spirit Starting Hand #535855906 Start time of hand: 03 Oct 2008 07:35:07 Last Hand #535855547 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: RING Money Type: REAL MONEY Blinds are now $0.05/$0.10 Button is at seat 10 Seat 1: mrsifters - $5 Seat 2: SweetAngeleyes - $5.65 Seat 3: Betso - $2.20 Seat 4: waylay - $5.74 Seat 5: tonafita - $5.41 Seat 6: PinkEvilMonkey - $42.73 Seat 7: leighleo - $13.26 Seat 8: irihka - $7.95 Seat 9: tolac - $9.10 Seat 10: ketasztkerek - $7.10 Moving Button to seat 2 Betso posts small blind ($0.05) waylay posts big blind ($0.10) mrsifters posts $0.10 Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Kd Kh] to waylay waylay winks. PinkEvilMonkey: playing enough tables here, fulltilt and pokerstars tonafita folds PinkEvilMonkey calls $0.10 leighleo folds irihka folds tolac calls $0.10 ketasztkerek raises to $0.30 mrsifters folds SweetAngeleyes folds Betso calls $0.30 waylay calls $0.30 tonafita: no tourns at all PinkEvilMonkey calls $0.30 tolac calls $0.30 ifukinghatepoker: did u start with $10 t? PinkEvilMonkey: hmm Dealing Flop [2h Qh 8s] tonafita: aye PinkEvilMonkey: i? Betso checks waylay checks PinkEvilMonkey: no 4 PinkEvilMonkey checks ifukinghatepoker: lmao ur pish tolac checks tonafita: my arrrse ketasztkerek bets $0.40 Betso calls $0.40 waylay raises to $5.44 (all-in) SweetAngeleyes laughs his *** off. PinkEvilMonkey folds tolac folds ketasztkerek calls $5.44 Betso calls $1.90 (all-in) PinkEvilMonkey: thinking befor all ins and calls ; Betso shows [Ts Jh] waylay shows [Kd Kh] ketasztkerek shows [Th Qs] Dealing Turn [2d] Dealing River [Ks] Taking Rake of $1.43 from pot 1 waylay has Full House, Kings over 2s waylay wins $7.08 from side pot #1 with: Full House, Kings over 2s SweetAngeleyes chuckles. waylay says sweet. waylay wins $5.87 with: Full House, Kings over 2s SweetAngeleyes acknowledges a nice hand. Seat 1: mrsifters - $4.90 Seat 2: SweetAngeleyes - $5.65 Seat 3: Betso - $0 Seat 4: waylay - $12.95 Seat 5: tonafita - $5.41 Seat 6: PinkEvilMonkey - $42.43 Seat 7: leighleo - $13.26 Seat 8: irihka - $7.95 Seat 9: tolac - $8.80 Seat 10: ketasztkerek - $1.36 U see they were afraid of a sniper, then they were not. Just in time for a kill shot. Exactly what I wanted them to think. Exact same scenario I explained above about KK. Battle field awareness and minamal loss. I have battle field awareness now. Now there afraid of the sniper again. Exactly what I want also. U can bluff stupidly or smartly. I explained fold points for a reason. even though it sounds like dungeons and dragons it isn't. It is the only way I could explain what i'm honestly trying to say.
__________________ Out to lunch Last edited by Krahsami; 3rd October 2008 at 09:36 AM. |
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3rd October 2008, 06:41 AM
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| It was completely right in front of me, someone who touts "be the sniper"......making bluffs. Don't waste ammo!! omg! What you did, was being the Sniper but you had a BB gun instead of a sniper rifle, shooting at a whole division. This one time it worked but later down the road you might not be so lucky. Ya, you can use your image to your advangte and I think that is what happened here more than you making a read. You've told us how tight of a player you are and if most people have half a brain, they'd see that. What is truly amazing to me, is how you ask people for their opinions, get mad when they give them to you and give you math to back it all up. Defend your play when you ASKED people about it. Now your trying to school us, with your constant flip-flopping of how to properly play. You need to first find who the heck you are as a player and stick to it. If you wanna be a sniper, rock, tree, flying fish or a hammock, most of us don't really care. Play your game bro, sit there making your just barely cashing because of your insanely tight play (that KQ fold in SB with M under 5 was just silly), and you will wonder why you never win tourneys, because you lack what is needed to be successful at final tables. Please continue with this "Sniper/General" theory when it become constructive and educational. As far as poker goes, this should be removed from the beginners section because it contains nothing constructive towards the development of beginniners .........which is why we have the beginners section, to help people understand and learn to love the game like the rest of us have. Now if you excuse me, This general has some troops to capture and people to drive over with my tank.
__________________ I Bling in my Wyte tee, I win MTTs in my Wyte tee, all in the club, I take down massive pots in my Wyte tee. |
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3rd October 2008, 09:40 AM
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| You know what I quit agin anyway Screw it Im done trying. From now on I think ill stick to bashing other ppl seems to be the fad instead of help. Idin't say be a sniper is iad it was an option. And I'd rather be a sniper than an assualt type guy. which I woulda explained but screw it. I'm not insanely tight. I just don't gamble anymore like I USED to. I play. And I try to get my $ in best and not waste it chasing, and hoping, and risking. And yes it was a read and yes it was table image. ( fold points). And honestly I see the true value. this isn't a fly by night thing. I played for a very long time and FINALLY saw it. All I know is Im going to save myself alot of typing.
__________________ Out to lunch |
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3rd October 2008, 12:24 PM
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| Its super trying to put these theories forward, but when 1. they dont work very well and 2. try to apply tourney play to cash games, its not doing anyone any good. Heres the problems, laid out simply: 1. No such things as +fold points - what you have to realise that this 'great fold' you're making, who else sees it? Noone! You could have been dealt 72o, but still you're the only one who knows this. You're not really building any image by just folding pre. If you limp/call pre then check/fold the flop, THAT is an image (very exploitable though it is ) As an added problem, most of the people that play these stakes simply don't pay much attention, they're just playing their own cards, no amount of you folding is going to change that.2. The whole analogy is very tenuous. All this sniper/general stuff, all bullshit. REAL poker players look at table situations, ranges of hands held by opponents, their tendencies in playing those hands, and the EV of the given hand. I played Warcraft, and theres very little you can take from there to the poker table 3. Some of those hands are lol - the not-raising of the AK with limpers in front? What do you hate money or something? Have you heard of the fundamental theorem of poker? If you play your hand as you would if you could see your opponents cards, you win money. So raise the limpers, punish them for limp/calling with QJs and the like. The hand when you checked it down with TP2K with KQ also quite amusing. Non-raising of JJ UTG also massively horrible. Limping UTG with 76o 40BB deep was so gross, almost brought my lunch back up. Flatting the raise with KK with cold callers in front, so so horrible. 4. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AMMO CONSERVATION IN CASH GAMES - we have this current situation, nothing more, nothing less. Whichever play is most +EV, we do, we do not have to 'conserve' as we can instantly rebuy for the next hand, which leads to the next point... 5. You don't even buy in full, you seem to have things mixed up too. For a good player, there is no other option then to play fullstacked- you maximise your EV against fish. You seem to limp when you should be raising, then betting/raising when you should be folding. You don't make money at low stakes by running elaborate multistreet bluffs when your line is repping nothing- you make money by punishing limpers, stealing the blinds/cbetting, and value betting fish mercilessly. Sorry if this seems harsh, but really this whole theory is NOT good at all. I wish you all the best, but this is just a runaway train idea, headed for a deadend |
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3rd October 2008, 08:09 PM
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| Well with my being an RPG player as well, I have tried to understand your thinking on this, and see if it had any bearing at all with all the aspects at the poker table. I think that I've come to the conclusion that RPG formats just don't fit very well with poker...simply because there are just way too many variables to consider. In RPGs, you've got your HP, MP, LP etc, and if yours is higher than your opponent you win, but if yours is lower than the opponent you lose. I suppose one could warp it and say that your chip stack could be your HP/MP/LP or whatever, but even then there are still too many variables to make it work, because every player in poker doesn't necessarily win just because their chip stack or "HP" is higher, as would be the case in an RPG. Also, RPG enemies usually use the same set tactics or attacks to beat you. Poker players vary way too often to be able to use RPG format to try to beat them. Also, in RPGs you tend to get to know your enemies...their strengths and weaknesses, so you pretty much know how to beat them without having to put too much thought into it. You don't often get this chance playing poker, primarily at cash tables, because people get up and sit down every few minutes, so the field is constantly changing. In tournaments, you can get to know a few players, but not all of them, so the ones you don't know are going to be the ones to manipulate and exploit your HP, or in your case FP (fold points) way of thinking. So, although I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and tried to understand the thought process behind your theory, I just can't see it as being highly profitable over the long term. There are just toooooo many variables involved.
__________________ ~Lady~ "Most of the money you'll win at poker comes not from the brilliance of your own play, but from the ineptitude of your opponents." - Lou Krieger |
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3rd October 2008, 08:55 PM
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| I tried to read it... I did. But could you please convert your hands Krahsami? It was way too much work to slog though the raw hand histories. For example, compare the following two quotes: Quote:
Quote:
Edit: The ugliest thing about these hands has to be the 10% rake. 
__________________ I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call. |
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4th October 2008, 12:11 AM
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| I'd rather swing a bat in the dark; then poke someone with a twig in the day. I'll take the coinflips because I know that they are a part of poker; and I think in order to win them you have take some chances. Although I'm not saying to play stupid; sometimes you have to push even with garbage and hope to get lucky. |
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4th October 2008, 05:48 AM
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| Ok I guess I should not play like this because it doesn't work You know what I played some otheres where I bombed out for making bad reads getting bad beat what ever. But you know what Im ahead still last couple weeks even with the ones I burned on why because i placed in these ones, And placed well. How many 2000 ppl type tournies you got top 100 in the last 2 weeks honest? Cant go deep like that YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. You know why im playing these type tournaments? because youl get no experience for the WSOP playing sit and go'. The more you play the more experience you gain obviously. Even if it was fake $ which I hate you know what you play the hand you gain the experience. $10 Freeroll Texas Hold 'em No Limit 63/2000 02, October, 2008 $20 Freeroll Texas Hold 'em No Limit 49/1512 30, September, 2008 $1,500 Guaranteed (6 seater) Texas Hold 'em No Limit 21/246 29, September, 2008 $10 Freeroll Texas Hold 'em No Limit 24/2000 29, September, 2008 $1,750 Guaranteed (6 seater) Texas Hold 'em No Limit 14/290 28, September, 2008 $20 Freeroll Texas Hold 'em No Limit 44/2000 25, September, 2008 $10 Freeroll Texas Hold 'em No Limit 28/1984 19, September, 2008 poker stars 110918261 Hold'em NoLimit 2008/10/01 20:00 ET $ 0.50 Entrants 2146 \ 59 110919191 Hold'em NoLimit 2008/10/03 22:00 ET $ 0.25 Entrants 3103 \ 93 I also got a final table 7th but it doesn't show that one at the website because it was a differnt type freeroll.. But if you look back in the post to the one I went out 7th that's also within the last 2 weeks because it shows the date. But that wasn't 2000 type ppl tourney ony 574. Also Im sorry I don't have the bank roll you guys have. You say I post minimal coming in and that is not how it is done. You know what from a YIN sort of perspective that's true. From a yang sort of perspective including MINIMAL loss that's false. It's not even that I will tell you the truth if we play at a table together and some one else is there. After an hour he will respect my bet more than yours more than likely. which makes my $ worth more than your $. I am anti AGgressive. WHY? because there's too many aggressive type ppl in poker (yins) Assault type soldier. The only way to combat a style is to play the oppisite style the YANG. (the sniper) why? because the average soldier is afraid of a sniper. He know there s a sniper out there and doesn't go firing his gun as much knowing that it might draw attention to himself. If u shoot at him though hes wither going to draw or run. Hes not going to think about it. Consistancy. the only time you don't have a chance to make the final table is when you have no chips. Why would you have no chips? The words risk, chase, hope, come to mind?\I burn just as much as the next guy. But I didn't do it with a dog hand I bet I probably just got unlucky. My buddy said he wants to sponser me. The thing about being a sniper is you dont usually have to worry about words like risk, possibly, hopefully,chase, THE ONLY THING YOU NEED FEAR IS GETTING UNLUCKY. But im crazy I know By the way in almost every case in every post you guys have told me to push you were gambling and I was not. and In some cases you would have been Knocked out or POSSIBLY knocked out and I wouldn't have. Now you guys are honestly trying to tell me I made a mistake here? Open your minds. I made it in phases for a reason. so you can digest the first one. be unbiast. THINK about it not just bash it. As I said I rather PUSH AJ to A3 any day being ahead then push A4 suited being a dog. You know why I didn't push A4 there? I WANTED TO PUSH A 4 TRUST ME. Honestly I saw something you guys didn't. I added that variable in and said the shot was too risky. THINK. What possible hands can beat A 4 suited Your super deep Not just say I have A 4 suited and im super deep is a simple clue even though I'm super short stacked. THINK. THINK. The REAL problem with getting deep is EVERYONE is a sniper. ITS RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU ( you know why I know? seen this before honest than thought what hands can make A4 suited a dog hand) my answer any AX type hand or 44 or better. Ammo conservation. You can use it smartley or stupidly. It's a different level of thinking is all. not just a quote from a book. DO YOU WANT TO GO OUT A DOG OR GO OUT BEST GETTING UNLUCKY. Just digest it. If I'm going out I;m going to try and make it a kill shot If I can. I'll stand on my feet. but when you kill me there will be respect. I honestly hate going out a dog is all. And you can maximize your profits or minimize your damages. I check .
__________________ Out to lunch Last edited by Krahsami; 4th October 2008 at 10:59 AM. |
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4th October 2008, 12:03 PM
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| Quote:
These are great numbers that show you can go deep. But how much profit do you show? Finishing 10th to 200th in this style of pay structuire 20% of the time will not make you as much money as finishing in the top three 1% of the time. - I think this is the point most people are trying to make. Finishing consistently well in a tourney is not going to impress anyone if you don't have the profits to back it up. The goal should be to adjust your game to allow you to make the most profit. With MTT payout structures the way they are, you must take more chaces to make the top three. Yes you will be less consistently finishing high but you will make more money. Until then, PLAY SATELLITES |
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4th October 2008, 06:20 PM
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| I have more than I started with I have more $ than I started with and have played the tourney got the experience. As I said I even played some and burned. So If I place once deep I can play 5 more times free. The only time you cant make first is when your out. Because I know in every case I had a chance to make the final table Playing consistant minimizes that threat When 4th to 600 are getting Prize money getting paid is still getting paid.
__________________ Out to lunch |
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4th October 2008, 07:58 PM
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| Quote:
If you place in the top three once you could play in 100-500 tourneys for free. Your style of play will probably make you a break even player or a very small winner over the long run. If this is O.K. then continue as is. 80-90% of poker players lose money in the long run after rake (the online sites take most of the profit in poker) and you have made it to the top 10-20%. |
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4th October 2008, 09:21 PM
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| the freerolls are not included they were just for practice. And the payouts were a joke. Basically I played two .25 tournies and two . 50 tournies. Got unlucky be it by bad read or beat or whatever in 2 and got knocked out early (it's going to happen). Now including the entry fee for all 4 tournies I spent 1.50 Now I know I am up 3$ still because of my finish's. So I spent 1.50 and am still up 3$ from original number and played 2 more tournies even but didn't place. But I got an education cheaply because I didn't have to buy it, I had a scolarship. So when I look at it my ROI is more than 10%. Im not even saying it works all the time, I honestly just encountered this level of thinking after many years of testing various playstyles maybe a month ago, But I thought it, I didn't read it somewhere. WHY? because I played the hand and got the experience. I have days in ring games I come out behind, But they respected me. Honestly in EVERYTHING you do in life there is a yin and yang. I didn't come up with yin and yang I only thought to myself why would that not apply to poker as well? Then As I said I know even the most aggressive person in the world (Assault type, Yin) WILL RESPECT Dan Harrington as a player. WE all saw him take down that pot with 62 Preflop with 2 aggressors. Why? because he's a sniper and they knew it and were scared when he shot. WHY? because there soldiers and soldiers are afraid of snipers.. He KNEW he needed he had to use some fold points up and risk it at the EXACT RIGHT TIME to take down a real pot. So he SHOT and PPL RAN. hes a yang. Obviously I don't know what he was thinking honestly. But that move itself is when I truly thought about it. It changed my life forever. It made me a yang when I finally saw what I percieved as respect. the biggest bet in the world can not give you respect it is earned even if you do have to show em your cards. Why because your not Dan harrington but you want them to know you ARE a SNIPER You want them to know you were patient and waited for a kill shot Or you dont show at all YIN and YANG. YOU want them to know and your NOT afraid to show them you are. That when you shoot your not afraid to hide. Why do yins HIDE? Even the biggest newbie in the world will get respect if he has enough fold points using minimal loss. Now imagine a sniper out there using it. He really didnt have to risk alot even. You know what else? he encounters minimal loss by checking and not firing. Why because ppl are afraid to fire thier guns unless its a big one, in which case if he doesn't have a BIGGER GUN he can run away and conserve AMMO. EVEN before the battle begins (preflop) When they know a snipers out there on the battlefield just waiting on some one to stick there head up PPL don't want to start firing first. He wants to encounter MINIMAL RESISTANCE which is MINIMAL LOSS and has simply because every ones afraid to draw there gun because no one has fired first and they know a snipers out there. PHASES basically. Lots of them. Progression of battle. real time stategy. Do you really want to fire at him? maybe so. But what if you knew he was a sniper and not a soldier? Do you really want to fire at him? Well when you do he always ran away so sure FIRE. OOOOPS he fired back at me now what. Up to you if you want to kill your self or risk it. So now all those times he ran away and saved his ammo, Just gave him more because he either KILLED some one or they RAN away. But usually he didn't risk it ( NOT ALWAYS). Snipers are camofaluged ( hard to put on a specific hand). his $ is worth more than the next guy $ WHY? Because he's special forces and has to be respected, he's not your average soldier. I play with certain people in real life alot. You know what honestly I know I have made them lay AK down with an A on board before because they showed me. Why because they know a sniper is out there. No one does that right? Ive seen it. Im not saying do it. I'm saying digest it unbiastly. The thing about Yin and Yang is they will NEVER EVER AGREE. But it doesn't make the others way wrong. the o |