To explain it a bit further

[irishpkr]

tbqfh imo bbq

[powrdragn]

Why shouldn't it? It did start a long thread of meaningful posts with good insight from the posters.

[shipit1time]

Here's something you're going to have to realize, no one is paying any attention to any of that crap at 10 cent 25 cent, even if you play with them for a year. Anyone that's any good is playing 10 tables or is mearly building a roll to move up. If you catch the 1 in 5000 people that are going to pay attention to this they aren't going to think you're a "sniper", they're just going to think that you're retarded and a terrible poker player.

[Phildavies]

LOL well said

[dew12109]

Originally Posted by Krahsami I triple dog dare you to step on a paintball field with me ( played over 30 real $ paintball tounaments let alone played the world series)

I'll pass on playing paintball with you, but you want to play poker with me?

[Krahsami]

PPL are paying attention when you play like this no matter what limit it is, when you keep showing up they don't have to anymore they KNOW. I know for sure they are. Your showing them outright.

You just don't like it because it's not the way you play. You still havn't answered the question how would you deal with some one like this. He's not worried about mazimizing. all he does mostly is call or check even with far superior hands. Answer that first please, before you start pointing out everything else. You don't like it because its not normal to you. You don't have to like it. You have to deal with it when he shows up today. When he shows up tomorrow. When he gets in a mood and hunts you down on every table you visit for a month. You have to deal with this guy. HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?

See you keep pointing this and that out. If I think that way the style does not work. You have to be 100 % different. Which creates the uncertainty.
And I'll play poker with you no problems. I'll play against anyone. Why because I don't hide when it comes to playing poker. And go ahead be aggressive all you want, won't bug me in the slightest. I'll just be patient and wait for the right time. Very simple. But when I do call your yin raise you will be uncertain I swear it and your probably more than likely going to start ducking your head.

You can take 8 blinds from me I don't care. I only need one shot back at you to make it all back plus some. I'll just sit in the bush being a sniper doing nothing but hide and let Yins do what yins do. It's not a problem. You know what else I'll play again and again and again with you if you want. No problem. because then I'll know how you'd deal with this guy when he shows up today and tomorrow and the next day ect. You still havn't answered the question.

[irishpkr]

I have already said: Just simply fold the hands you normally raise that are normally ahead of the range of normal players --> earlier I said: "The AT hand ISNT a dilemma at all, because after you're seen to limp AJ+, then its simple to just avoid playing hands like AT isnt it? You stop playing them"

Simple, just tighten up the range you play, avoid dominated hands, and just give up against any resistance. If anything nut peddlers like yourself are much EASIER to play than lagtards, simply because when you call, you have it, LAGs raise whether they have it or not

Sorry but its just a simple case of adjusting your range and style, I have to do this every day, on every table I play at, you're not 'special'

[Krahsami]

Point proven

why would you not play that A 10 again? Because he limps with big hands. I said that already myself. WHY not play that hand? Because a snipers on the battlefield.

Youv'e reverted to your Yang form now. Your on a Yang battlefield playing a YANG battle with a little bit of Yang not ALOT. You were uncertain if the other simply calls. You are uncertain and uncomfortable if you encounter any resistance at all. So even with a big hand you will still be uncertain because the other did nothing at all. What he always does. Which is EXACTLY what I am trying to say.

you've been put here because of the style your trying to use to encounter minimal loss from this guy. When he calls he has it eh? like calling a 1.25 cent raise preflop with 97 suited. flop come AK whatever and he bets .75 less than the original bet. Every one bails because they see an A out there. Because he has it and they know it. No my friends not true. Your on a Yang style battlefield and the rules differ here.

Once you get them on your battlefield the real fun can begin. This is where there little Yang does not stand a chance against your Big yang. They have no choice but to come battle you on you terms because your patient and don't risk alot and they know it. They have no choice but respect a sniper unless they have a deathwish, even if they don't like the guy they have to respect him.

Why are you all of suddenly playing a yang type game against this guy then?

BECUASE HE MADE YOU UNCERTAIN by doing NOTHING. He took you out of your normal enviroment and put you in his by simply being there.

So how you going to deal with this guy again? because what your suggesting is not a really good tactic I'll just let you know that right now. Why because you might try playing Yang but you will revert to little yin habbits by accident. He'll be patient and wait for a yin to be a yin. Hell wait for the shot. He'll usually do it at minimal loss, with minimal risk with alot of respect.

[frob23]

Hmm, how to beat this player... simple... just follow the points repeatedly made in poker books about playing these sorts of players. I believe Sklansky goes into great detail on this exact subject, repeatedly. I believe he gives it ample treatment in Hold'em Poker: For Advanced Players. I am pretty sure it's also in The Theory of Poker and some of his other books as well. And adapting to this style of play is certainly well within the means of any thinking player -- even if they haven't read the books -- if they just slow down and think about it for a bit.

What makes it better is that you have combined the worst of the weak/tight player's characteristics with the worst of the loose/aggressive player's characteristics. It's like a system specifically designed to lose.

But that is fine. Like liladypokerpro said, if you're a recreational player and you don't mind playing like this... it's your money.

I, for one, wouldn't worry for a second about this player. And if he sat at my table every time I sat down... I would probably make sure I played every single day.

[irishpkr]

PLEASE STOP WITH THE BATTLEFIELD ANALOGY, JESUS. I don't see what point you're proving here, I might play KJ against a guy playing 50% of hands, because its ahead of his range, and inversely I'm gonna play good hands against you nut peddlers.

"So how you going to deal with again? because what your suggesting is not a really good tactic I'll just let you know that right now. Why because you might try playing Yang but you will revert to little yin habbits by accident. He'll be patient and wait for a yin to be a yin."
Stop talking this bullshit! I'm a boring, methodical guy - my degree choice, as well as my hobbies, all require a logical, disciplined approach to whatever. Its easier to play against a nit (sniper, whatever the fuck you want to call it) because his range is so well defined. Playing against ANY style of play is simply figuring out the guys tendencies --> range, then maximise the EV against that. I dont play 82o against a TAG, because I'm behind his range, I dont play Ax against nits behind I'm behind his range, really quite simple.

[Krahsami]

PPL can write all the books they want. They can never write one about dealing with this guy I bet.Because what they explained is based on being able to put this guy on a hand somehow. When your that passive it's impossible usually. You have camoflage. Now there book is going to tell you to take a Yin shot at him eventually. Hes going to run away conserving his ammo making your bigger gun useless and be patient for that time that Yin pops his head up again and he has the shot. then he's going to shoot back. All these books you read will eventually tell you take a Yin shot at him. EXACTLY what hes being so patient to achieve. Tell me what you do when he flat calls?

Because I can't even find a book that explains how to play this way let alone combat it. Because ppl like this havn't been seen before more than likely. Because ppl would think someone like this was crazy for playing that way.

They wrote ones about ppl who are similar to this not LIKE this. This is so passive that it has natural defences to any aggressor because it is 100% reverse. Not just a little bit here and there. It has to be 100% reverse not 75% or it will not work.

It is not based on maximizing like normal. It's based on simply being there doing nothing waiting for some one to shoot at you. It's Anti agressive which is EXACTLY what I was trying to achieve by doing it. It's based on having some one getting aggressive.

Usually you don't have to wait long.

The whole point is to talk about battle field analogys. You just don't like it like I said because it's 100% different than the way you think. I don't knock you because you play 100% differnt.

You guys keep saying things like adapting, slowing down, changing the variety of hands you play. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?
Let's think about that just for one secound. WHY Are you guys changing your games up at all???? You know what the sniper already knows your going to change you game up anyway so it doesn't matter. Thats why I asked you. Thats a bad tactic also. So why are you changing you game up then?

Pretty sure it's because some one has come into the game that makes you uncertain and uncomfortable. You have to do that ( u dont have a deathwish). You have to change your game up now and all he does is what he always does be there doing nothing. He's playing his same game. The game your TRYING to play now is the game he ALWAYS plays though. Welcome to the YANG battle field. Where ppl don't shoot as much achieving minimal loss. Why? because no one wants to fire first knowing he might regret it because he respects his foes. When a sniper fires on a Yang battle field the average soldier ducks.

which is pretty well everything I have said in every post just more in depth in the posts. All summed up in those final words. The sniper already knows how you'll probably react to him. Which is how he wants you to react to him. He wants you on his battlefield. Not be on yours. Just being there creates uncertainty. the best part is that the only way to combat an anti agerssive person is to be even more aggressive. The thing about being anti agressive though is that your hoping some one might get agressive. So it's up to you if want to fire at a sniper. You can risk it or kill yourself up to you.
It does exist. it's there. Don't you see theres balance. Having yin tendencies on a Yang battlefield might get ya shot though if your not patient.

I will tell you best way to deal with a sniper though. get position on him honest. So if he fires you can duck if you have to.

[irishpkr]

Its too easy to play against, avoid dominated hands. Thats it
Its not profitable, you can only win money by hitting a card. The more profitable aggressive style can win by hitting their card, AS WELL AS CAUSING folds..

Thats all there is to it - you can't say stuff like 'It is not based on maximizing' then expect us to take this system seriously, as it goes against the very point and purpose of poker, to take the most amount of money in the long run

EDIT: "The whole point is to talk about battle field analogys. You just don't like it like I said because it's 100% different than the way you think."

When I'm going to the loo to take a shit, I don't talk about 'dropping an airstrike' or 'going on a bombing run'. The whole point is that, HELLO, THIS IS POKER, we don't need analogies. Poker is 1. put opponent on range of hands, 2. maximise EV against said range. Maybe if you're like 12 these analogies are cute or something, its just unnecessary waffle. I'd rather talk poker thanks.

[Krahsami]

I can only explain it that way. I want you to do that. That is why I do this. The whole theory is based on some one trying to do that. The problem with your theory is your thinking a tight player not a sniper.

Yes please make the sniper fold. Use that Yin side. I would love it if some one was that dumb. Keep shooting at him. Cause some folds. LMAO.
!! BANG !!

Thats what he wants, He's out there hoping some one will get aggressive. Makes it easier for him. That's why he plays the way he does. Because he knows it only a matter of time before a Yin can't resist being a Yin. Because He always has a hand is the only reason he's there in the first place.. Now you shoot once wrong and your going to have keep shooting alot more just to make up for the one time he shot back. Because u took minimal off him and hes taking more back. Perfect yes please shoot, Be a Yin. It's only a matter of time and patience after that. Thing about being a sniper is your out there waiting for ppl to shoot so dont care if they do. Your dedicated to being patient and waiting for the EXACT right time, So you can make him regret it. How powerful is the sniper? I don't know he did nothing again. Please please keep shooting at me. Because when you shoot at some one you have to expose yourself to do it. Once you expose yourself you can get zoomed in on easier. The best thing about camoflage is you cant see where I am. So you can risk shooting at at me but it honestly could get you shot back worse If you shoot a pile of leaves by accident thinking it was a sniper exposing yourself to do it. !!! BANG !!!


Your honestly willing to shoot at a guy that doesnt bet a flopped top set and flat calls raises with it. Yes plz do that. That you see trap all the time and hold his guns off constantly and not fire even though there HUGE ( he does nothing), That never bets top pair out. that you see is very rarely even playing a hand. Yes that woould be a dream. Usually they get smarter than that after an hour or 2. Usually there unsure if they should bet let alone steal, usually there uncertain. A sniper makes his most $ letting Yins be Yins. Usually at very Minimal risk. Please cause some folds. The trap is set. See if you know a soldier is coming you can set up booby traps and wait in ambush. Which is how a sniper does it all the time not just occasionally.

[dew12109]

I've played the guy like this. When you catch a straight against this guy with no paired board, you can easily rake in the money, and that straight is pretty easy to get to, as this guy checks, so free cards are abundant. So even with his top set of A's you can maximize your profit, while at the same time maximizing his losses. It's really that simple. If you put this player on a really big hand, you can win a lot when you realize you just hit outdrew/outflopped him. It's really not hard to put this guy on hands either.
This guy isn't really even a sniper in my opinion... sure he can shoot with a long range rifle but... he has no ghillie suit, and he's actually wearing a bright orange vest with a strobe light above his head.

[Krahsami]

blow back happens. you know what in that same scenario any yin isn't going to fair any better.
and there is Camo I assure you.

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by Krahsami I can only explain it that way. I want you to do that. That is why I do this. The whole theory is based on some one trying to do that. The problem with your theory is your thinking a tight player not a sniper. Yes please make the sniper fold. Use that Yin side. I would love it if some one was that dumb. Keep shooting at him. Cause some folds. LMAO. !! BANG !! Thats what he wants, He's out there hoping some one will get aggressive. Makes it easier for him. That's why he plays the way he does. Because he knows it only a matter of time before a Yin can't resist being a Yin. Because He always has a hand is the only reason he's there in the first place.. Now you shoot once wrong and your going to have keep shooting alot more just to make up for the one time he shot back. Because u took minimal off him and hes taking more back. Perfect yes please shoot, Be a Yin. It's only a matter of time and patience after that. Thing about being a sniper is your out there waiting for ppl to shoot so dont care if they do. Your dedicated to being patient and waiting for the EXACT right time, So you can make him regret it. How powerful is the sniper? I don't know he did nothing again. Please please keep shooting at me. Because when you shoot at some one you have to expose yourself to do it. Once you expose yourself you can get zoomed in on easier. The best thing about camoflage is you cant see where I am. So you can risk shooting at at me but it honestly could get you shot back worse If you shoot a pile of leaves by accident thinking it was a sniper exposing yourself to do it. !!! BANG !!! Your honestly willing to shoot at a guy that doesnt bet a flopped top set and flat calls raises with it. Yes plz do that. That you see trap all the time and hold his guns off constantly and not fire even though there HUGE ( he does nothing), That never bets top pair out. that you see is very rarely even playing a hand. Yes that woould be a dream. Usually they get smarter than that after an hour or 2. Usually there unsure if they should bet let alone steal, usually there uncertain. A sniper makes his most $ letting Yins be Yins. Usually at very Minimal risk. Please cause some folds. The trap is set. See if you know a soldier is coming you can set up booby traps and wait in ambush. Which is how a sniper does it all the time not just occasionally.

You take what I say almost entirely out of context, clearly I'm not thinking about causing YOU in particular to fold, but the poker playing population as a whole. You play a fit or fold style of poker, with no regards to position (limp/call 97 UTG as example).

Remember, you only hit the flop 1 in 3 times with unpaired cards, and only 1 in 8.5 or so with a pair. A fit or fold game OOP simply isnt profitable, hell, I'd go so far as to say that playing AQ UTG without the initiative or position is probably -EV at fullring.

You have no gears, just limp this, limp that, you have to be able to mix things up at some point to be the best you can be at this game, and it seems you just never do that.

Krahsami, if I can ask you to do one thing, please stop the battlefield bullshit, this is a poker forum, for poker players, please...

[Krahsami]

U dont know how I play I assure you. And I have many different gears.I am not some crack pot thats been playing a couple years. All my play is based on the hands I have had and shown. I bluff just as much as any one and still pay for it as a yang also. Just alot less is all. I also know a whole lot about position friend and use it extremely effectively as my ally. And theres many many many more things I know I also incorporate into the game. I also play a wider variety of hands than you would imagine.

You have no idea how I play for certain.


Most of your $ will come from impatient Yins at minimal risk.


Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: RING
Money Type: REAL MONEY
Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50
Button is at seat 2
Seat 1: sejrsejr - $16.40
Seat 2: p0kerholic - $63.34
Seat 3: QuadWord - $18.17
Seat 4: scorpioxx - $47.82
Seat 5: eddhino - $44.68
Seat 6: waylay - $33.39
Seat 7: AMG66 - $113.31
Seat 8: stinkkaneel - $22.51
Seat 9: imnotbluffin - $8.17
Seat 10: geijstedt - $52.35
Moving Button to seat 3
scorpioxx posts small blind ($0.25)
eddhino posts big blind ($0.50)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [Qc Qh] to waylay
waylay calls $0.50
AMG66 calls $0.50
stinkkaneel folds
imnotbluffin calls $0.50
geijstedt folds
sejrsejr folds
p0kerholic folds
QuadWord calls $0.50
scorpioxx folds
eddhino checks
Dealing Flop [Ks 4d Qs]
eddhino checks
waylay checks
AMG66 bets $2.75
imnotbluffin raises to $7.67 (all-in)
QuadWord folds
eddhino folds
waylay calls $7.67
AMG66 folds
waylay shows [Qc Qh]
imnotbluffin shows [Ts 7s]
Dealing Turn [2h]
Dealing River [5d]
Taking Rake of $1.04 from pot 1
imnotbluffin has High Card: King
waylay has Three of a Kind: Queens
waylay wins $19.80 with: Three of a Kind: Queens
eddhino acknowledges waylay had a nice hand.
Seat 1: sejrsejr - $16.40
Seat 2: p0kerholic - $63.34
Seat 3: QuadWord - $17.67
Seat 4: scorpioxx - $47.57
Seat 5: eddhino - $44.18
Seat 6: waylay - $45.02
Seat 7: AMG66 - $110.06
Seat 8: stinkkaneel - $22.51
Seat 9: imnotbluffin - $0
Seat 10: geijstedt - $52.35

BANG



Starting Hand #542012966
Start time of hand: 09 Oct 2008 11:52:31
Last Hand #542011521
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: TOURNAMENT
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now $30/$60
Button is at seat 1
Seat 1: waylay - $1,480
Seat 2: cplhewie - $5,275
Seat 3: LazyLion69 - $6,700
Seat 4: WoodyWhitegate - $1,740
Seat 5: oswald - $1,240
Seat 6: bevo72 - $4,220
Moving Button to seat 3
WoodyWhitegate posts small blind ($30)
oswald posts big blind ($60)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [Kc Ac] to waylay
bevo72 folds
waylay calls $60
cplhewie calls $60
LazyLion69 calls $60
WoodyWhitegate calls $60
oswald raises to $1,240 (all-in)
waylay can't believe it.
waylay raises to $1,480 (all-in)
cplhewie folds
LazyLion69 folds
WoodyWhitegate folds
Returning $240 to waylay uncalled
waylay shows [Kc Ac]
oswald shows [As Ts]
Dealing Flop [6s 8d 4c]
Dealing Turn [2s]
Dealing River [Kh]
waylay has One Pair: Kings
waylay wins $2,660 with: One Pair: Kings
waylay says sweet.
Seat 1: waylay - $2,900
Seat 2: cplhewie - $5,215
Seat 3: LazyLion69 - $6,640
Seat 4: WoodyWhitegate - $1,680
Seat 5: oswald - $0
Seat 6: bevo72 - $4,220

[frob23]

Wow, less than 24xBB profit with a flopped set. You are a master. How could we not see this power before?

[frob23]

FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (150xBB)
BB (147xBB)
UTG (42.5xBB)
MP1 (18xBB)
Hero (180xBB)
CO (209.5xBB)
Button (150.5xBB)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , .

CO: CO has

UTG calls 1xBB, 1 fold, Hero raises to 5xBB, CO calls 5xBB, 3 folds, UTG folds.

Flop: (12.5xBB) , , (2 players)
Hero bets 10xBB, CO calls 10xBB.

This is a fairly standard bet. Thankfully, the CO is in full sniper mode. And instead of raising me, he just calls.


Turn: (32.5xBB) (2 players)
Hero bets 25xBB, CO raises to 50xBB, Hero raises to 165xBB, CO calls 115xBB.

I bet, the sniper takes his minraise shot... and I fire with my stack. Of course the sniper insta-calls because he's got the kill shot lined up now.

River: (362.5xBB) (2 players)

Final Pot: 362.5xBB

Results in below:
Outcome: Hero wins 362.5xBB


Thank goodness for snipers. Instead of taking the pot on the flop, which he should have. He let's me double through him. Believe me. Once I was called on that flop, I wasn't putting much more money in. So it wasn't like he was making more money unless I improved and he went behind. Why? Because this player was playing just like you describe. I knew he was calling with real strength. All hail the sniper way.

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by frob23 Wow, less than 24xBB profit with a flopped set. You are a master. How could we not see this power before?

This, but then again how much profit can you make from a set if you buyin for 2/3 stack? ;P