Slow-Playing for Beginning Poker Players

[frob23]

The short version of this thread "SlowPlaying for Beginning Poker Players" is don't. I am going to discuss some of the things which should be in place for you to slowplay but there is one overwhelming factor for the beginning poker player which makes slowplaying wrong 99% of the time. This factor is that you're playing in low-limit and weak games (you should be because these are places to learn cheaply). In these games, a primary characteristic is that the players call too often with marginal hands and funky draws... you do NOT want to give them free cards if they're likely going to pay for the card anyway. This is actually part of the text below but I emphasize it here. In games where most bets are called, regardless of the strength of someone's hand, bet for value and don't slowplay.

It should also be noted that this is not talking about check-raising (where you check intending to raise in the same round) which is also abused and misused a lot but is a totally different thing. This is checking/calling on a round... not intending to make a move until the next (or a later) round.

A note: The 5 criteria are copied from Hold'em Poker: For Advanced Players by David Slansky and Mason Malmuth (Section Two: Slowplaying). I recommend this book for players looking mainly to increase their limit game. I also recommend The Theory of Poker by David Slansky for a more in depth discussion on when and why to slowplay. And while the criteria are copied from this book, the rest of this post and commentary on each criteria are my own words... so if there is a mistake, it's me and not Slansky.

1. Your hand must be very strong. [emph mine]
2. You probably will chase everyone out by betting, but you have a good chance of winning a large pot if you check.
3. The free card that you're giving has good possibilities of making second-best hands. [emph mine]
4. This free card has little chance of making a better hand for someone or even of giving him a draw to a better hand with sufficient odds to justify a call.
5. The pot must not yet be very large.

I'll elaborate a little on these below.

1. Your hand must be very strong. [emph mine]

Basically, you must have flopped a monster. The best possible straight (with no flush draws out), the best possible flush (A-high), a full house, quads, or better. And you should note that the straights and flushes are not hands I would recommend slowplaying. There's nothing worse than having the board pair and finding, from the action, that someone flopped a set and turned the boat... and now you're in a bad spot.

In short, your hand has got to be about the only thing out there.

2. You probably will chase everyone out by betting, but you have a good chance of winning a large pot if you check.

This is where the beginning player usually fails the slowplay test. Most low stakes games are very loose and very passive. You're going to get called most of the time if you put a bet out. Also, no one else at the table is going to bet your hand for you. You need to just step up and bet it. On top of that, if you want to win a huge pot... you need to start building a big pot as early as possible.

3. The free card that you're giving has good possibilities of making second-best hands. [emph mine]

The emphasis is because you do not want someone to draw out on you. If you have AA and the flop is A-9-7, there aren't many cards that are going to make someone a second-best hand that they'll commit a lot of chips with. Even if they have a K and they get one... they're going to worry about a pair of Aces. The only hands that are going to give action are going to be hands that can beat a pair of aces... and some of those are also going to beat a set of aces. This is especially true if there are two to a flush on the board.

Flopping a set of Aces is where most beginning players make the mistake of trying to slowplay. If someone is not going to call your bet on the flop, they probably don't have enough to go broke on the turn or river either. There just aren't a lot of second best hands that could be made. But some miracle card could crack your hand.

If you have A-4 and the flop is 4-4-A then you are in a spot where you can consider slowplaying. Your hand is very strong and if the next card is a , it may have just made someone a very expensive second-best hand.

4. This free card has little chance of making a better hand for someone or even of giving him a draw to a better hand with sufficient odds to justify a call.

In NL games, the sufficient odds concern is less of a problem because you can change or control the odds on the turn more. But you do not want to slowplay when a free card could very likely make someone a better hand. If you flop the best possible straight... and there are two s out there.... you need to bet because there's a good chance another could make someone a better hand.

5. The pot must not yet be very large.

This one is hard to define for beginning poker players. The size of a pot is relative to the type of game. In a limit game, a large pot would be several Big Bets (say 5-6 big bets -- big bets are twice the big blind). In this case, the pot is already large enough that you want to just win it. On top of that, it's also large enough to give other players good odds to call and try to beat your hand. You want to bet for both reasons. It's big enough that you're happy to win it now... but it's also big enough that many hands that would fold normally will come along because the pot odds are so good.

In a NL game, the size of the pot is relative to the amount of chips left in each players stack. I'll keep it simple and say that if someone in the hand has less than 4-5 times the size of the pot left in their stack... the pot has become very large for them. At this point, if they have something... they're probably going to go along for the ride anyway. If you lead out... they might call and end up unable to fold the turn for what is left in their stacks.


This is a very... very basic intro to slowplaying. Unless you have a really solid grasp of all 5 of these concepts and the experience to tell when they're all in play... you shouldn't be slowplaying. In general, it's wrong for a beginning player to slowplay. If you bet and everyone folds, then it's likely no one had enough to improve to a second-best hand anyway... and you might have saved yourself from someone improving to the best hand.

[liladypokerpro]

Nice job Frob - a very good read! Two enthusiastic thumbs up. There are always going to be beginners that want to take a stab at slow-playing, whether they know better or not. At least with this information they'll be armed with the tools to attempt it properly.

[Wyte22]

The only real hand that can be slow played is Full House. Everything else, slow playing will get you in alot of trouble if you can't grasp reading the board and player's actions yet. I've slow played trips only to get rivered by straights and flushes!!

Soo unless you got the nut full boat, raise it like you stole it!!

[frob23]

I have posted an example hand where I "slowplayed" and only ended up making worse and worse decisions.

The best example of how to play like an idiot ever.

The sad thing is, that the hand is not fiction. That is exactly how it happened. That really is me and I really played that bad. Vomit bags are optional but recommended.

[Matthew]

I'm kind of getting into slowplaying even more and more but I still have some problems with my Poker face because I still get too excited sometimes if I flop something strong. How did you guys overcome that problem because that would really help me improving my game.

[liladypokerpro]

I saw an interesting program once. They took poker players (and I believe they did this also with blackjack players at one point) and placed heart monitors on them and watched their heart rates jump to near-stroke levels when faced with tough decisions or when they got a monster hand.

The fact of the matter is, even professionals get the jitters. The difference between them and us is that they have conditioned themselves over many years of practice to hide these emotions almost to near perfection.

This kind of conditioning cannot be achieved overnight. It takes a lot of strength and will power to learn to control your body's natural reactions to tension and stress. The only thing that any of us can do is simply force our will power to its very limits.

Ever hear the saying "Mind over matter?" Whoever coined that phrase was a genius...except he forgot one thing...he never mentioned the perfect way to accomplish perfect results.

[Vito_Nuccio]

Originally Posted by Matthew I'm kind of getting into slowplaying even more and more but I still have some problems with my Poker face because I still get too excited sometimes if I flop something strong. How did you guys overcome that problem because that would really help me improving my game.

The answer to this question is to bet. The slow play should not be utilized often. Use it against the proper player, but use it sparingly. Good players will catch on to your antics if you over use the slow play. You give too many cheap draw opportunities when slow playing. If you have a hand, bet, make the draws pay.

As for the poker face, that is a toughie. My best recommendation on this is to play at home online like it was live. Keep the emotions in check, stay calm no matter what the situation, good or bad. If you can take a terrible suckout or a great win with a sigh and the next click of the mouse, when you find yourself in a live game your mind set is already taken care of. It is just another game of poker, one of many.

Later,

[Brooklynbum]

I get the feeling this is for cash games not tournaments.

I often feel that slowplaying in cash games is over rated but in tournaments it can be useful especially against a super aggressive player.

But then slowplaying is a skill that is very subtle in nature and can only be exploited against certain players.

Nice post!

[Wyte22]

Str8s are NOT a good slow playing hand.....This has just occured in a sat.

Hero (1670)
Villian (1330)

Hero (85o)

Hero Raises 90, Villian calls

Flop: 9 8 6
Villian bets 60, Hero Calls (pot is 300 at this point)

Turn: 5
Villian checks (obvious str8), I check (I got two pair time to peel one off). A pot bet here, I am folding.

River: 5.
Villian bets 300. I think for a minute, shove, insta call, shows me A7 and he sees I bulit Noah's Ark because of his free card!

[phosphorescence]

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum I get the feeling this is for cash games not tournaments. I often feel that slowplaying in cash games is over rated but in tournaments it can be useful especially against a super aggressive player. But then slowplaying is a skill that is very subtle in nature and can only be exploited against certain players. Nice post!

i certainly agree with this. it's a great way to double up.
you have to take more chances in tourneys than cash games, so although there is sometimes risk in slow playing, you have to take that chance to accumulate chips.

i tend to do it when i've called a pre flop raise with a low pair, then hit trips. check it to him, he bets, you call to make it look like you're drawing. blank comes on turn, check again, he pushes and you take all his chips

obviously it depends on how many people are in the hand. i'm not risking it if there's 4 to the flop and a flush draw on board.

[frob23]

In a tournament, every chip matters. Unless the stacks are really, really deep... I am not slowplaying anything but an absolute monster (quads maybe). There's not enough implied value for the risk. If slowplaying increases my risk of losing the hand by even 10%, I would rather bet and just take the pot down.

But that is me. And I still think beginning poker players shouldn't be slowplaying. It's usually a mistake and costs them value.

[powrdragn]

The funny thing is that so many new players hear about slow playing and really want to get value when they hit what they believe to be a good hand.

Even good players general reserve slowplaying for the super aggressive oppnents and such. It should definitely be a tool and not a crutch. If you're not sure if it's correct to slow play, go with the best option...bet!

[BUILDMO]

A straight beats trips.
So if slow playing trips can get you into trouble.
Pot bets usually can push out a straight draw.
It's the flush draws that worry me, so a larger bet with trips can push others out.
Either way some will call and the coin flip starts.
Best of luck with slow playing a good hand.
To be a master at slow playing good hands, be aware of the table and push when you can.
This will result in winning.