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2nd October 2008, 06:43 PM
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 The sniper and the General A Snipers job is to be sneaky. If he fires at everything people are going to detect him. He's also going to run out of AMMO eventually. So what he wants to do Is wait for that precise exact KILL shot(AA,KK). If's theres too much wind or a Patrol unit, or another sniper he might not even take the shot Unless he sees the general and has a kill shot. (the nuts at whatever stage you are at the board) Why? Because the extra variables make it too risky. These folowing hands might explain it. Theres always going to be a time where he has no choice but take A shot. It may not be a value target but a target of opportunity. As long as he has Ammo He can take that Shot. Even if it's only one bullet he has Ammo. The silver bullet. Wasting ammo is the worst thing you can do. In phase 2 I'll explain wasting ammo more. Table #10758525 - Tournament #6992999 Table #20 Starting Hand #535280344 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 17:39:58 Last Hand #535278708 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: TOURNAMENT Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS Blinds are now $800/$1,600 Button is at seat 8 Seat 2: kaki88 - $20,958 Seat 3: CiWiDaMiKo - $5,485 Seat 4: kubko - $16,191 Seat 5: frome2you - $24,525 Seat 6: waylay - $2,980 Seat 7: Frank0612 - $185,311 Seat 8: larry0522 - $49,183 Seat 9: andyssential - $30,862 Seat 10: Melwen - $11,850 Moving Button to seat 9 kaki88 posts ante of $150 CiWiDaMiKo posts ante of $150 kubko posts ante of $150 frome2you posts ante of $150 waylay posts ante of $150 Frank0612 posts ante of $150 larry0522 posts ante of $150 andyssential posts ante of $150 Melwen posts ante of $150 Melwen posts small blind ($800) kaki88 posts big blind ($1,600) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Qh Ad] to waylay CiWiDaMiKo folds kubko calls $1,600 frome2you folds waylay raises to $2,830 (all-in) Frank0612 folds larry0522 folds andyssential folds Melwen folds kaki88 calls $2,830 kubko calls $2,830 kubko: Chicken! Dealing Flop [5h Qs Jc] kaki88 checks kubko checks Dealing Turn [3d] kaki88 checks kubko checks kubko suggests you bring it on. Dealing River [9c] kaki88 checks Player [***NO PLAYER***] brings $7,025 to table [10758525] drizam has joined from Tournament Table #198 kubko checks kaki88 can't believe it. waylay shows [Qh Ad] waylay has One Pair: Queens kaki88 mucks kubko mucks waylay cheers. waylay wins $10,640 with: One Pair: Queens Seat 1: drizam - $7,025 Seat 2: kaki88 - $17,978 Seat 3: CiWiDaMiKo - $5,335 Seat 4: kubko - $13,211 Seat 5: frome2you - $24,375 Seat 6: waylay - $10,640 Seat 7: Frank0612 - $185,161 Seat 8: larry0522 - $49,033 Seat 9: andyssential - $30,712 Seat 10: Melwen - $10,900 waylay says finally! Frank0612 laughs out loud. End Of Hand #535280344 Waiting around and having AMMO lets you get a target of opportunity. Table #10758525 - Tournament #6992999 Table #20 Starting Hand #535292554 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 17:51:39 Last Hand #535291153 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: TOURNAMENT Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS Blinds are now $1,500/$3,000 Button is at seat 5 Seat 1: drizam - $6,425 Seat 2: kaki88 - $49,127 Seat 3: mischa1974 - $24,720 Seat 5: frome2you - $15,240 Seat 6: waylay - $6,690 Seat 7: Frank0612 - $159,278 Seat 8: larry0522 - $74,498 Seat 9: andyssential - $35,562 Seat 10: Melwen - $7,950 Moving Button to seat 6 drizam posts ante of $300 kaki88 posts ante of $300 mischa1974 posts ante of $300 frome2you posts ante of $300 waylay posts ante of $300 Frank0612 posts ante of $300 larry0522 posts ante of $300 andyssential posts ante of $300 Melwen posts ante of $300 Frank0612 posts small blind ($1,500) larry0522 posts big blind ($3,000) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [4s As] to waylay andyssential calls $3,000 Melwen folds drizam folds kaki88 calls $3,000 mischa1974 folds frome2you folds waylay folds Frank0612 folds larry0522 checks Dealing Flop [2h 7d 9c] kubko: gl dude larry0522 checks kubko: dudes andyssential bets $3,000 kaki88 calls $3,000 larry0522 folds Dealing Turn [7h] andyssential bets $3,000 kaki88 calls $3,000 Dealing River [3h] andyssential bets $6,000 kaki88 calls $6,000 andyssential shows [Kh Ks] andyssential has Two Pairs: Kings, 7s kaki88 mucks andyssential wins $37,200 with: Two Pairs: Kings, 7s Seat 1: drizam - $6,125 Seat 2: kaki88 - $33,827 Seat 3: mischa1974 - $24,420 Seat 5: frome2you - $14,940 Seat 6: waylay - $6,390 Seat 7: Frank0612 - $157,478 Seat 8: larry0522 - $71,198 Seat 9: andyssential - $57,462 Seat 10: Melwen - $7,650 End Of Hand #535292554 Now if you Spend all your AMMO taking risky Shots especially with other varibles involved You let the other Snipers (andyssential) detect you and shoot you. Your basically Blowing yourself up for no reason,and wasting AMMO. Table #10758525 - Tournament #6992999 Table #20 Starting Hand #535295781 Start time of hand: 02 Oct 2008 17:54:37 Last Hand #535294691 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: TOURNAMENT Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS Blinds are now $1,500/$3,000 Button is at seat 7 Seat 2: kaki88 - $33,527 Seat 3: mischa1974 - $24,120 Seat 4: ZeRoMaX - $6,044 Seat 5: frome2you - $14,640 Seat 6: waylay - $6,090 Seat 7: Frank0612 - $157,178 Seat 8: larry0522 - $82,423 Seat 9: andyssential - $54,162 Seat 10: Melwen - $7,350 Moving Button to seat 8 kaki88 posts ante of $300 mischa1974 posts ante of $300 ZeRoMaX posts ante of $300 frome2you posts ante of $300 waylay posts ante of $300 Frank0612 posts ante of $300 larry0522 posts ante of $300 andyssential posts ante of $300 Melwen posts ante of $300 andyssential posts small blind ($1,500) Melwen posts big blind ($3,000) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [Jc As] to waylay andyssential will see you. larry0522: ^^ kaki88 calls $3,000 mischa1974 folds ZeRoMaX raises to $5,744 (all-in) frome2you folds waylay can't believe it. waylay raises to $5,790 (all-in) Frank0612 folds larry0522 calls $5,790 andyssential folds Melwen calls $5,790 kaki88 calls $5,790 Dealing Flop [5d Js 2s] Melwen checks kaki88 checks larry0522 checks Dealing Turn [4h] Melwen bets $1,260 (all-in) kaki88 calls $1,260 larry0522 calls $1,260 Dealing River [Jd] kaki88 checks larry0522 checks Melwen shows [Ah 3d] Melwen has Straight, 5 high kaki88 mucks larry0522 mucks annicola: yes frank yes Melwen wins $3,780 from side pot #2 with: Straight, 5 high isabeau: succes lieverd isabeau: xxxxx waylay mucks ZeRoMaX claps. Melwen wins $184 from side pot #1 with: Straight, 5 high waylay: ong Melwen says thank you. ZeRoMaX mucks Melwen wins $32,920 with: Straight, 5 high Seat 2: kaki88 - $26,177 Seat 3: mischa1974 - $23,820 Seat 4: ZeRoMaX - $0 Seat 5: frome2you - $14,340 Seat 6: waylay - $0 Seat 7: Frank0612 - $156,878 Seat 8: larry0522 - $75,073 Seat 9: andyssential - $52,362 Seat 10: Melwen - $36,884 End Of Hand #535295781 Now when A target of opportunity presents itself again, You still have AMMO left. (the silver bullet). If you take the best shot you could you didn't make a mistake you just got unlucky. But you didn't waste your AMMO and you were a GOOD soldier. This is honestly just Phase 1 of operation Zen. Theres a big battle raging. 
__________________ Out to lunch  |
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2nd October 2008, 07:45 PM
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| soo basically let yourself get blinded out till you only have 2BB so you don't waste your 'ammo'? i seriously think you should consider taking more risks at the later stages of tournaments, i know you don't want to hear it - just consider it anyway. if i start to go below 10BB i'm in 'double up or go home' mode. i'd never let myself get down this low before i start shoving. |
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2nd October 2008, 08:42 PM
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| you have around 2X BB in all of these hands and you're talking about wasting ammo? In that spot you should be pushing any two cards essentially. |
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2nd October 2008, 08:58 PM
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 The Zen of Broomcorn's Uncle. Obviously people can choose to play their chips however they desire. You paid your buy-in, how you want to play the tournament is up to you. But recommending that people allow themselves to be blinded to death while they wait for a premium hand (and end up shoving a less than premium one anyway)... isn't something that I'd encourage. Time is money and sitting around being blinded out, and getting less and less chance of a deep win, is costing you more than it's probably worth. I know you agreed to just ignore my comments on the KQo hand... that's fine... that's your hand to play. But I sure hope people won't read this and think that it's an optimal way to play a tournament. Actually, scratch that... I would love it if that happened... so long as they played in the same tournaments as I do.
__________________ I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call. |
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2nd October 2008, 09:16 PM
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| It waiting for the right time I am not saying do It I am saying it is an option. But im hearing words like take risks, Pushing ect. I tried explaining it as simple as I could up there. Words like that are uncertain. No you don't have to take risks or push to go deep. You chose to. If that was 22 and not A4 I woulda shoved. Because yes I have to take a risk verry soon with my stack. But im not going to do it with a dog hand. A4 is crushed as I said by any pockets 4 or better and almost any AX callers unless they got A3 =[. You have to be patient, most ppl can't. Ive seen so many ppl got out on little aces because some one came in with a big 1. I didn't get blinded out I went out with a better hand. I also wasn't a dog to hands like 44 55 66 77 OR KK Like I was with A4, That guy didn't need kings to beat me 44 woulda done it. I dont just look at my hand and stack and make a decision. I think about how many ppl are in the hand and what hands can beat mine now plus a whole lot more variables also. With AJ at least your a coin flip basically to pockets 10 an under. And in this case a weaker Ace got lucky. But I still wanted the call from that weaker Ace. Now If my hand held up and take down this pot I'm in better shape. Did I let myself get blinded out? Did I in the first hand? No I was patient and waited for the exact right time. And I did get deeper into the tourney for doing so. Again I push back there and I don't have to worry about a bad beat later.
__________________ Out to lunch |
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2nd October 2008, 09:55 PM
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| I agree with Frob. You need to be taking risks earlier in order to make it deeper in to tournies. If you sit around and wait for the slim range that you think is good enough to push then you're going to be low on chips like you are in all of those hands. You're going to have to take risks eventually, and you ended up getting knocked out from behind because you don't have enough chips to force someone to fold 7-2 off, they're getting to good of odds to knock someone out. You're not going to get anywhere by waiting until you have 2 BB left to start pushing. |
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2nd October 2008, 10:19 PM
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| the real math 9 X 300 ante 2700 SB 1500 BB 3000 caller 3000 Raise 5744 IM all IN 5790 Call 5790 BB CALL 2790 Limper CALL 2790 A hand holding up Priceless, plus acouple more knockouts. Now I got knocked out 69 th outta 2000 here. How am I not getting in deep with this strategy? Yes you need to take risks, but you can make smart risks or stupid ones. You can take pot shots or go for the kill. You honestly only need one bullet, 10 is a dream and has lots of play to it, not just shove it all in. Running out of ammo sucks, Spending your entire clip and missing will get you shot. With that pot all I need do is wait for a target of oportunity and get 1 caller and not get unlucky, and Ill probably make final table. The only time your never going to make the final table is when you have no chips left. Other than that you cant say you cant make the final table playing like that. There is a yin and a yang in everything. Im the yang to your yin is all. Which is how I like it honestly. Why ? because there too many yins, Its gotta balance so there has to be some yangs. I found a new level as I said. I'm not saying it's perfect, but compared to my own game even a year ago my new game is now a yang not a yin. As I said I will explain it a bit more in phase 2. because there s no way to explain this in one post. I'm also not advocating that people do this. I am showing them that this option is there. I wish some one would have told me this stuff, woulda made my life easier playing. Im honestly doing this to help. All you have to do is look at it unbiastly and with an open mind. Not just say thats Crazy. Because after waying all the variables crazy is getting knocked out with A4 being a dog, and not getting a chance to double up with AJ against A3 later even though you did the math. Its not a certainty either some times you take bad beats or make a wrong read and cant recover. But if you got in best you still didn't make a mistake. I'm going to get into ammo waste next. The only way I can explain it best is like the way I am trying. Using a war analogy. It's not the hands them selves you should be looking at but the words written with them. P.S. I will tell you something true. In every war that has ever been fought regular soldiers are afraid of snipers.
__________________ Out to lunch Last edited by Krahsami; 3rd October 2008 at 12:09 AM. |
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2nd October 2008, 10:44 PM
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| Seems like you're missing the whole point here: YOU HAVE M<2 WHEN YOU GET THESE HANDS Super, you're waiting for a good hand to go all in with. Great, you double up, but even when you do, you're still in a massive hole, M of 3-4, so you still need another 2double/1triple up to regain any sort of comfort zone. You don't win tournies by simply surviving |
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2nd October 2008, 11:03 PM
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| Lol, how do you waste ammo when there is none left to use? |
Pinch Hitter Champion!|
2nd October 2008, 11:19 PM
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| Quote:
Also, did anyone catch "The General" or is that just code for "the pure and absolute nuts?" I can't see a player here who would be a general.
__________________ I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call. |
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3rd October 2008, 03:00 AM
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| I made a final table the other day Yes you can make final tables by surviving. You can't when your felted. I would rather place consistantly in the prizepool than win every once in awhile. And when you have consistancy you have more opportunities. And if you cant see that I had a shot at the final table taking down that pot I cant explain it any more. I made the right call and went deeper because of my read.
__________________ Out to lunch |
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3rd October 2008, 05:39 AM
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| Quote:
and yes if you play like the sniper, there will be alot of times, your chip stack is so small, suckout hands will call and do their rightful duty, railing you for only playing 6% of your hands all tourney. going deep is nice and all but going deep WITH a good chip stack is better, but still no promise that you will make a final table.
__________________ I Bling in my Wyte tee, I win MTTs in my Wyte tee, all in the club, I take down massive pots in my Wyte tee.  |
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3rd October 2008, 06:39 PM
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| Quote:
So you think I'm telling you how good I am. No. Because of my similar "surviving" style, I am little better than a break even player. Most Multi Table Tourneys are structured to reward the top 3 with half of the whole prize pool. Most of my finishes have returned only 2-5 times my buy-in. I am trying to open up my game and actually finish ITM less, but go for the win. One piece of constructive advice I would like to give you is play satellites. I try to play satellites where all of the "winners" receive the same prize. For example a field of 1000 players plays in a satellite tourney where the top 100 receive a ticket. Even if I win only 20 % of these it is still doubling my money. It seems to be working so far and I just unregister from the satellite win for tourney $. |
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