The Venerable Bluff

[Legion III]

I have been playing poker for about a year. It has taken me quite a bit of time to get to a point where I am somewhat near to being tight aggressive. I may have been disadvantaged in that I began by playing online for play money. And in many of these games people play loose aggressive and I found it “profitable” to play tight passive and let the loose aggressive players bet into me.

Anyway, more to the point, I have become increasingly aware that I will likely never reach my earnings potential in real money games if I cannot correctly employ a bluff. It is difficult for me to bluff for a number of reasons. First, I can’t seem to get past the dishonesty of it. Yes, I know this is poker and deception is a cornerstone of the game. But I find that habits of principle can sometimes be difficult to overcome. Second, because of my relative lack of experience I don’t know which spots are ripe for a bluff. Third, it seems that the few times that I have tried to bluff I have run into monster hands and as a result I am somewhat gun shy.

I suspect that asking for insight into the proper time to bluff may virtually be asking for a full blown lesson on all of poker. Nevertheless I feel compelled to inquire. When should I bluff?

[Brooklynbum]

Bluffing really depends on the situation.

Bluffing really comes down to your abillity to read another player's hands or his/her style.

Your style also comes into play. For example, if you are known to chase down a draw for example, you can float a draw and bluff on the turn if the scare card hits.

On the flip side you can also take advantage of another player's irrational fear of drawing out. So if you know the player you're playing against is deathly scared of draws for example, you can toss out a good bluff when that scare card hits.

Ultimately, a good bluff usually needs courage to pull off. Most likely you're going to risk a large amount of money to make it work sometimes.

I guess a good baseline for you to start bluffing is to semi-bluff at pots where you have outs in case your bluff doesn't work out.

Semi-bluffing would be a good starting point and from there you can graduate to bluffing with air.

[liladypokerpro]

You will get much more detailed and in-depth responses than mine I'm sure, but I will share with you what has worked for me and you can take it with a grain of salt until you can compare the notes of others.

I used to be like you when starting out...brutally honest to a fault. Didn't believe bluffing was "good poker." I had to learn the hard way that it is not only good poker, it's a must in some cases, although still is best when used sparingly.

Typically when browsing rooms for a table, I'll watch whatever table I have chosen for a bit of time...usually 10 to 20 minutes, depending on the speed and action of the game. I'll try to pick up reads and tells in this period, and make temporary notes on particular players until I join and can solidify them further. Once I join the game, I start out with a tight/passive strategy...kind of "feeling out" the table, because sometimes when a new player joins, the table will slow down a bit in an effort to feel you out. It usually only takes a round or two before they go back to normal. This is when I begin to vary into tight/aggressive. When I've won a few fair pots with big hands, I'll flash the cards so they can see that I did indeed have them beat. This solidifies your image at the table in their mind that when you bet or raise into them, they are beat. Once it becomes apparent that your image has been sold (usually you'll be able to tell when people start folding to you more frequently), this is the optimal time to test out a bluff. But you've got to pick your spots carefully....particular boards are more profitable for bluffs than others, and you want opponents that by this time you have a good solid read on. This can work wonders against really passive players, especially if big cards or draws hit the board, because they will automatically assume you've hit whatever the board shows as a possibility. However, if your bluff fails and your cards are shown at showdown, use this also as an advantage. Because now they think "aw man he's been bluffing this whole time" so now, they'll be more inclined to call you down more often. This is when reverting back to tight/aggressive will pay you off big. No more bluffs after this, at least until they are back to thinking "damn, maybe that bluff was a fluke" and they start playing scared against you again.

This is just what has worked for me at online cash tables. As I said just take it with a grain of salt and compare with other responses, and decide then what you might want to try or what might work best for you.

[Legion III]

Thank you Brooklynbum.

Would you care to explain the semi-bluff? How does it differ from a just a plain ol' bluff?

[Legion III]

Thank you Lilady. That makes a great deal of sense to me.

So basically your bluffs are dependant on the image you've built at the table. I believe that I have often failed to capitalize on my image as tight player at a table. I will bear in mind what you've said here. Thanks again.

[frob23]

I think you're getting better at bluffing. Especially playing tournaments like you have been because you're starting to realize that you absolutely must bluff at times. Of course, tournament bluffing is going to be almost completely pre-flop and flop based. In a cash game, you're going to make stronger bluffs on the turn and be able to make reraise bluffs.

On top of that... don't get too anxious to bluff all the time. It's very hard to 3-bet bluff with air. A couple well timed bluffs are often enough.

One other very important factor with bluffing is reading the board and your opponent's hand (and range of hands). You must be very good at putting someone on a range and be able to see how that range connects to the board. In a cash game, you must also know what they're likely to call a flop-bet with before you think of firing again on the turn -- and depending on what card comes on the turn.

Some people prefer to bluff from early position, so they can bet first, but I prefer to bluff in late position (even though it's more predictable and expected). When you bluff with position, you have more information and that will help you decide how likely a bluff is to work.

As suggested above, semi-bluff most of the time and work your way up to pure bluffs. And... if we're playing a stud game, bluff less often unless you're representing a hand that absolutely appears to crush the other guy's hands. And with that I will stop because I am starting to ramble. Bluffing is a situational part of the game and hard to define.

[Brooklynbum]

Legion, a semi-bluff is a bluff where you don't have a hand yet but can be drawing to the best hand.

So for example, you hold A/10 hearts and the board is 8, 3, 9 with two hearts. You can bluff at this pot because although you don't have a hand yet you could be drawing to the best hand on ensuing streets.

This would be an example of a semi-bluff. So even if the other player calls you still have outs to improve.

A straight up bluff would be if you had 2/7 off suit and bet out like you had an overpair or a set even. In this situation you have virtually no chance of winning this hand unless you get extermely lucky but you're bluffing like you have a monster hand.

Basically the difference between a semi-bluff and a out and out bluff is that in a semi-bluff you've got a chance to draw to the better hand over your opponent.

Hope this makes sense.

[Legion III]

Thanks again Brooklynbum. That makes sense to me I think.

I play a quite a bit of holdem. And I will often bet a strong draw such an open-ended straight draw or a flush draw. This strikes me as being indistinguishable from the semi-bluff. I hope I have that right.

I suppose it would be a different kind of thing if I was playing 7-card or some other game. But I think I understand you.

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by Legion III Thank you Lilady. That makes a great deal of sense to me. So basically your bluffs are dependant on the image you've built at the table. I believe that I have often failed to capitalize on my image as tight player at a table. I will bear in mind what you've said here. Thanks again.

Yes indeed. Because attempting to bluff when your opponents view you as a loose cannon is useless.

And I'm glad that you found something helpful from what I said so you are most welcome.

[Vito_Nuccio]

Some good points as usual so far here, I will add to what you have.

A semi-bluff usually means you have a draw to a potential winner. You are betting with not necessarily the best hand, but you do have at least one 'out', a way to improve, many times to the nuts or something close to it. The semi-bluff can win with the inital bluff bet or if called at least still has the ability to win. Flush and straight draws are the most common semi-bluff types of hands. I also consider under pairs part of the semi-bluff definition. The difference with under pairs unlike the straight or flush draw is you could actually have the best hand at the time of the 'semi-bluff'. The semi is basically a bluff, you show more strength than you actually have. It is prefixed with semi because you do have a chance to win with a showdown, not like a complete bluff where you have no hand, no draw and no showdown possibliity.

As for knowing when a bluff is in order will take some time. Opinions vary but most will point to a player read and hand and betting position. Bluff the better players, the ones able to lay down a hand. Player and game reads come naturally to the seasoned player, they will come in time to you. I do not have a formula of this or that, it is all feel for me as to when to bluff. Your inner poker voice will become louder and you will know when the time is right. You do not have to bluff every round or every so many minutes, but you must bet at no limit poker when you do not have the best of it in order to be a winning player. If you are tight aggressive this sets up nicely for bluffs as other players will put you on a hand when you do make a move. It also works the other way, if you play like a maniac and you have chips left when you do get a hand, the others will not give proper credit. Both ways work, use them both as you change gears (betting aggression and occurance) during a game.

Here are some dos and donts on bluffing.

DOs
-Do know who you are up against when trying to bluff or semi-bluff.
-Do bet the proper amount when bluffing (not too little, not too much) (a pot bet usually is fine).
-Do make some moves with less than optimal starters or when missing the board, others will have more trouble getting a bead on you
-Do not show the big bluff when it works, muck your cards, leave the ego home, let them think you had a hand, never give away more information than necessary

DO NOTs
-Do Not bluff for your tournament life unless with a very good read or short stack(if necessary).
-Do Not bluff when in a muli player flop, someone probably hit if you did not
-Do not bluff just to bluff, have a reason and a plan. Like what to do if they call or raise
-Do not be too stubborn, a re-raise usually means the bluff is over, unless pot committed (you bluffed too much to begin with), fold when the bluff is re-raised. Once again player reads mean everything here, you can re-raise the raise on your bluff if you think the other can lay down their hand and they also are not pot committed at the time.

With poker the rules and playing options change with the next shuffle of the cards. Bluffing is just one part of the game, one you should have in your bag of tricks. Take down some hands with a bet or more when the cards are not cooperating. Get away from other situations. Bluff here and there when you feel it is time. You will come to a happy medium where bluffing is just another function of your game. There will come a time when you just know what to do, bluff, muck, raise, call. It will come natural eventually. Keep playing and studying.

Later,

[PointerJake]

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum Legion, a semi-bluff is a bluff where you don't have a hand yet but can be drawing to the best hand. So for example, you hold A/10 hearts and the board is 8, 3, 9 with two hearts. You can bluff at this pot because although you don't have a hand yet you could be drawing to the best hand on ensuing streets. This would be an example of a semi-bluff. So even if the other player calls you still have outs to improve. A straight up bluff would be if you had 2/7 off suit and bet out like you had an overpair or a set even. In this situation you have virtually no chance of winning this hand unless you get extermely lucky but you're bluffing like you have a monster hand. Basically the difference between a semi-bluff and a out and out bluff is that in a semi-bluff you've got a chance to draw to the better hand over your opponent. Hope this makes sense.

I only semibluff, I dont ever do an all out bluff, especially on line. It is worth metioning though that I play a majority of cash games online. I think that straight bluffing becomes more effective and profitable in tournaments.

[Wyte22]

The secret to bluffing? Cast Lvl 3 illusion and play like your holding Aces every hand you bluff oh and raise it like you freakin stole it!!

[powrdragn]

I think Vito hit some things right on.

I don't bluff a whole lot. For me, this lends some legitimacy to the few times I do try it.

I also do a lot to read the board texture and try my hardest to put my opponent on a hand. The thing to remember is that a bluff only works when your opponent is in a situation with a hand he'd be afraid to call with.

I also try to make sure that I've played the hand in a way that my bluff bet looks legit. If I played the hand weak from front to back, betting big on a river A does nothing for me against an even semi-reasonable opponent.

[XDRAGON]

After experimenting with many different styles i have found that the small ball strategy works best for me. This involves raising in late postion pre flop in unentered pots with various types of hands from suited connectors to big pairs and other weaker unusual hands. But when you raise, you only raise about 2 1/2 times the BB to keep the pot small. If for example the BB calls then checks to you on the flop you always bet out about 2/3 of the pot regardless of if you completly missed or flopped the nuts, this way they never know what you have or how strong you are. Most of the time they will miss the flop and fold to you. Here you have won a small pot without ever risking much of you stack, by doing this over and over you will steadily build up your stack with little risk. If you come up against resistence and you have missed the flop just fold, you have lost very little. When this style really pays off is when you flop a monster, bet out and your opponent makes a stand because he's tired of you constantly stealing pots and thinks you have nothing so he check raises all in giving you a nice big pot. I love this style because by playing every hand exactly the same the other players can never put you on a hand and as a result find it very hard to play agaisnt you. But the key to this style is having position, it is sooo much more important than your cards.

[Vito_Nuccio]

Originally Posted by XDRAGON After experimenting with many different styles i have found that the small ball strategy works best for me. This involves raising in late postion pre flop in unentered pots with various types of hands from suited connectors to big pairs and other weaker unusual hands. But when you raise, you only raise about 2 1/2 times the BB to keep the pot small. If for example the BB calls then checks to you on the flop you always bet out about 2/3 of the pot regardless of if you completly missed or flopped the nuts, this way they never know what you have or how strong you are. Most of the time they will miss the flop and fold to you. Here you have won a small pot without ever risking much of you stack, by doing this over and over you will steadily build up your stack with little risk. If you come up against resistence and you have missed the flop just fold, you have lost very little. When this style really pays off is when you flop a monster, bet out and your opponent makes a stand because he's tired of you constantly stealing pots and thinks you have nothing so he check raises all in giving you a nice big pot. I love this style because by playing every hand exactly the same the other players can never put you on a hand and as a result find it very hard to play agaisnt you. But the key to this style is having position, it is sooo much more important than your cards.

While I raise a little more than 2.5BB (i prefer 4xBB), this is one method to consider. But It should be noted if you are going to raise only 2.5BB it should be later in a tourney when the blinds are higher. During the first few levels of a single or MTT, 2.5xBB raise will attract a good amount of action. If in a cash game, this may be enough to thin the field and set up the rest of the hand for you to manipulate. Using the same raise each time is a good way to mask strength. But do change up raise amounts here and there, throw in just enough spice to thow others off base.


Thanks

[XDRAGON]

Yeah it is true in certain situations you need to raise more, personally i feel its the opposite though. The deeper stacked me and my opponets are the more inclined i would be to rasie less pre flop, i think deep stacked situations are good for flop play and there is little value in just taking the blinds early in a tournament or in a cash game. However later in a a tourney when the blinds and ante's are worth more there is much greater value in raiseing more and just taking down the pot pre flop. The same is true when you are short stacked and have little play post flop, bets just to get it all in pre flop. As far as thining out the feild is concerned, i would only use this style from late position (ideally the button) in an unentered pot. This way you are sure to have position post flop and be up against few opponents, this is for sure a profitable situation long term. But i certainly agree due to the limitless variables in poker there are always going to be situations where you need to raise more or even limp.

[Legion III]

Well, I’ve been practicing my bluff a little bit. And I’ve tried to bear in mind some the things you guys have said here. Thanks for all the pointers.

However I still feel a bit odd when I bluff. I suspect that after some more practice I will become more comfortable with it. I know now that my end game (heads up especially) suffers from playing too tight and being reluctant to bluff.

My name is Legion and I am a recovering honest poker player. Thank you for your support.

[frob23]

Originally Posted by Legion III My name is Legion and I am a recovering honest poker player. Thank you for your support.

Hey man, an honest poker player is always welcome on my cash tables. I just hope your credit is good.

[XDRAGON]

Just remember a bluff doesn't have to work everytime in order to be profitable. If the pot size is $100 and you bluff at it with a $50 bet, it only has to work just over 50% of the time for it to be the correct play. Just look for weakness in your opponent and take a shot. Getting caught isn't the end of the world, if players know you never bluff you will not get paid off on your value bet's when you have the best hand.