Collusion or just stupidity

[tennisplayer2652]

Here is a razz hand that I recently played on Full Tilt. The reraiser was behind and virtually drawing dead. He also had a lot of money left on the table, so no need for the reraise. I lost a large amount (but had to call for 3-1 odds). Was this collusion or just stupidity?

Full Tilt Poker Game #7517668586: Table Hollywood - $5/$10 Ante $1 - Limit Razz - 0:02:04 ET - 2008/08/05
Seat 1: Royal_Clown ($338)
Seat 2: SLEE52 ($93)
Seat 3: Downtown 74 ($169), is sitting out
Seat 4: drseth2 ($178)
Seat 5: mrvictorwins ($76)
Seat 6: Lateralus1441 ($194.50)
Seat 7: Vladamir ($342.50)
Seat 8: Lucky Loonies ($111)
Vladamir antes $1
Lucky Loonies antes $1
Royal_Clown antes $1
drseth2 antes $1
SLEE52 antes $1
Lateralus1441 antes $1
mrvictorwins antes $1
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to Royal_Clown [5d]
Dealt to SLEE52 [Qh]
Dealt to drseth2 [3c]
Dealt to mrvictorwins [6h]
Dealt to Lateralus1441 [8c]
Dealt to Vladamir [8d]
Dealt to Lucky Loonies [7s 4s] [5c]
SLEE52 is high with [Qh]
SLEE52 brings in for $1.50
drseth2 folds
mrvictorwins calls $1.50
Lateralus1441 calls $1.50
Vladamir folds
Lucky Loonies completes it to $5
Royal_Clown raises to $10
SLEE52 folds
mrvictorwins calls $8.50
Lateralus1441 folds
Lucky Loonies calls $5
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to Royal_Clown [5d] [9d]
Dealt to mrvictorwins [6h] [Tc]
Dealt to Lucky Loonies [7s 4s 5c] [8s]
Lucky Loonies bets $5
Royal_Clown calls $5
mrvictorwins calls $5
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to Royal_Clown [5d 9d] [As]
Dealt to mrvictorwins [6h Tc] [Jd]
Dealt to Lucky Loonies [7s 4s 5c 8s] [Th]
Royal_Clown bets $10
mrvictorwins has 15 seconds left to act
mrvictorwins raises to $20
Lucky Loonies calls $20
Royal_Clown raises to $30
mrvictorwins raises to $40
Lucky Loonies: ??
Lucky Loonies calls $20
Royal_Clown calls $10
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to Royal_Clown [5d 9d As] [6d]
Dealt to mrvictorwins [6h Tc Jd] [6c]
Dealt to Lucky Loonies [7s 4s 5c 8s Th] [2s]
Royal_Clown bets $10
mrvictorwins raises to $20, and is all in
Lucky Loonies calls $20
Royal_Clown raises to $30
Lucky Loonies calls $10
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to Lucky Loonies [7s 4s 5c 8s Th 2s] [4c]
Royal_Clown bets $10
Lucky Loonies calls $10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Royal_Clown shows [7h 4d 5d 9d As 6d Ah] 7,6,5,4,A
Lucky Loonies mucks
Royal_Clown wins the side pot ($40) with 7,6,5,4,A
mrvictorwins mucks
Royal_Clown wins the main pot ($232) with 7,6,5,4,A
mrvictorwins is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $275 Main pot $235. Side pot $40. | Rake $3
Seat 1: Royal_Clown showed [7h 4d 5d 9d As 6d Ah] and won ($272) with 7,6,5,4,A
Seat 2: SLEE52 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: Downtown 74 is sitting out
Seat 4: drseth2 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: mrvictorwins mucked [Ks 7d 6h Tc Jd 6c 5h] - J,T,7,6,5
Seat 6: Lateralus1441 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: Vladamir folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: Lucky Loonies mucked [7s 4s 5c 8s Th 2s 4c] - 8,7,5,4,2

[irishpkr]

Dunno if one hand can be enough to prove collusion here.

On a side note, maybe its too weaktight, but cant you get away here on 6th?

[powrdragn]

I doubt it collusion. I 've seen hands play out like this before.

It seems pretty obvious that Royal_clown was probably made on 6th. So with a 7 low, I'm pretty sure he's going ot call regardless.

Mrvictorwins could have one of two things going here. He could either be frustrated/steaming nad hoping for some fold equity from you guys, but that's just a bad play anyway. The other thing is he could be hoping that either of you guys hav epaired up and he could be drawing to a better low than you, if you are stuck playing a T.

Admittedly, it's a bad play no matter how you look at it, but ah well.

Oddly though, when royal_clown three-bet, you could have gotten away. He obviously has no regard for your hand and he's still shoving money out there when there is already a sizeable pot.

I guess in some strange way there could have been collusion, but this mostly looks like a spot with a bad player in it. It's hard to gather a case of collusion from one hand.

[tennisplayer2652]

I don't think there is anyway I could get away from this hand, Royal_Crown was obviously right to reraise/max.


Afterward, the bad player said he was reraising because he thought Royal paired his A. Though, Royal would have still been ahead drawing to a 9, I'd be drawing to an 8 and the bad player would be drawing to a T.

It's hard to fold my hand on 6, if the bad player had more money and was set on maxing out drawing dead, than perhaps. It turned out that even though Royal had not paired, I still had about a 15% draw. Considering I put $30 in on the 6th/7th, it seems like an obvious call.

It's by far the strangest pot I've played, where a player way behind with lots of money still on the table, maxes the bet. I'll probably send the hand into full tilt, in case they keep a database of suspicious plays. I agree, it's most likely that the bad player was steaming.

[powrdragn]

I don't want you to think I was completely criticizing your play here. I said you COULD have gotten away, not that you absolutely needed to.

When you're playing a limit game and are simply facing one more bet, you almost have to call and hope for the best in your situation. Overall, I think you rplay was fine, but you weren't locked into the hand.

But yeah, if it helps you sleep better, go ahead ans end in the report. I don't think anything will likely come of it from one hand though.