Couple QQ hands

[HeyKidMove]

QQ can get a little tricky, and I had a couple semi tough decisions with the ladies tonight. I thought I would post a couple hands and see what everyone else would do.


HAND 1-
Full Tilt Poker Game #6789618780: Table New Brunswick - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:10:26 ET - 2008/06/11
Seat 1: HeyKidMove ($25)
Seat 2: C Huuustle ($25)
Seat 3: MattMarsh ($21.60)
Seat 4: AJS-DC ($24.95)
Seat 5: 1PKRPLR ($24.30)
Seat 6: RiverMan1969 ($19.40)
Seat 7: Murphy108 ($20.60)
Seat 8: Pruitt10 ($47.70)
HeyKidMove posts the small blind of $0.10
C Huuustle posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HeyKidMove [Qs Qc]
MattMarsh folds
AJS-DC raises to $0.85
1PKRPLR calls $0.85
RiverMan1969 folds
MrsPauls adds $25
Murphy108 has 15 seconds left to act
Murphy108 calls $0.85
Pruitt10 calls $0.85
HeyKidMove raises to $5
C Huuustle folds
AJS-DC has 15 seconds left to act
AJS-DC is sitting out
AJS-DC has timed out
AJS-DC folds
AJS-DC has returned
1PKRPLR has 15 seconds left to act
1PKRPLR raises to $24.30, and is all in
Murphy108 folds
Pruitt10 folds
HeyKidMove ?????


HAND 2-
Full Tilt Poker Game #6789975012: Table New Brunswick - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:37:18 ET - 2008/06/11
Seat 1: HeyKidMove ($41.05)
Seat 2: C Huuustle ($21.20)
Seat 3: MattMarsh ($22.30)
Seat 4: AJS-DC ($29.20)
Seat 5: 1PKRPLR ($52.55)
Seat 6: RiverMan1969 ($24.05)
Seat 7: Murphy108 ($0), is sitting out
Seat 8: m0riZ0riZ0r ($4.65)
Seat 9: MrsPauls ($25.30)
AJS-DC posts the small blind of $0.10
1PKRPLR posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HeyKidMove [Qd Qh]
RiverMan1969 raises to $0.75
m0riZ0riZ0r folds
MrsPauls folds
HeyKidMove raises to $2.50
C Huuustle folds
MattMarsh folds
AJS-DC folds
1PKRPLR folds
RiverMan1969 calls $1.75
*** FLOP *** [7c 2s 8s]
RiverMan1969 checks
HeyKidMove bets $4
RiverMan1969 has 15 seconds left to act
RiverMan1969 raises to $12
HeyKidMove has 15 seconds left to act
HeyKidMove ?????

[frob23]

First Reaction: The first hand, I am retarded and would probably call. It's a terrible call though. I am just a donk here. There are many good reasons to just fold this and move on.

Second Reaction after looking at the numbers: You'll be getting about 1.7-1 on your money ($32.95-$19.30) which isn't huge against his range... according to PokerStove, if he makes this move with AK or KK+ then you only need 1.5-1 to call. You have that here and I would call. If you widen his range to include AQs and JJ-QQ... you only need even money odds to call.

So... you can justify this call. Even against a very tight range here. Only if you think he only makes this move with KK or AA, will you find this call impossible.

The second hand is trickier. With a 4.5 SPR... you're at the perfect point to make a commitment decision with a top pair type hand... and this is one of them. If you play this hand at all, you play it all in. The only hands I worry about here are 7-7 and 8-8... and I think an aggressive player might make this raise with more. Without a specific read, I am not sure what to do here. I do not think it's terrible to fold and lose the $6.50... otherwise, make it $22 and run them out (I am pretty sure he's not folding here). It depends on how comfortable you are. This isn't a real scary flop for you... but you are making a decision for stacks here (obviously).

[gamer4life27]

These are both calling situations. For the first move, you could make arguments to either fold or call. But this is a cash game, if theres a slight chance that your ahead, call. If you end up on the short end of the stick, you could always re-buy, and add that info to your memory bank.

For the second hand, this is a little bit more tricky. He either has a set, or two overs suited Spades, like A Q of Spades or something. Or maybe some connecting cards, with top pair, or open ended. He has put himself all in basically. He bet more than half his stack, so thats telling you that he is going to go all in because of the pot odds. If you want to gamble, or to just see what he has, shove him. It's only a min raise more, and it's not a huge hit to your stack.

[Greco_]

I haven't played full ring in a long time but for me the 1st hand is a call. I can't see the guy fllatting an UTG raise with KK/AA. It just invites a multi way pot and that would be bad. I think he may be pushing with a fairly wide range here. JJ/10s, AK and possible some lower pairs too. I think it's call for me but then again it's close.

With the second one. As he was an UTG raiser, I feel he probably has an over pair to the board but an underpair to you. A range from 99-JJs. I doubt he is rasising 77/88/22 from UTG and I also doubt he is flatting KK oop. He may have AA here once in a while but again I'd personally lean on the side of a shove.

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by gamer4life27 But this is a cash game, if theres a slight chance that your ahead, call.

Really, I hope you see how bad this advice is. It doesn't matter if there exists a possibility that we are ahead, it only matters on how often we are ahead/behind and how far ahead/behind, and thus our equity, that matters here. So in hand one we're calling $19.30 to win roughly $32, so we need 38% equity roughly, so against even say, KK+,AK we have 40% equity, just really depends on how you see his range, I've seen people overcall my raise, and then proceed to raise over a reraise behind them with AJo, so with the possible trash they can have here too, easy call IMO.

Originally Posted by gamer4life27 He either has a set, or two overs suited Spades, like A Q of Spades or something. If you want to gamble, or to just see what he has, shove him...and it's not a huge hit to your stack.

We aren't here to gamble, we're here to get our money in when we have the odds to do so, gambling is rarely +EV, and ofcourse massive variance. The EV of a move doesnt rely on how our stack will be 'hit'.

Villian can ofcourse have a set here, but also possible to have overpair to the board, or 2 spades, but let's not just hope he has AQss, lets get a range...

At worst, he has 33, 77,88, 99-QQ, I think AA/KK are pretty unlikely here, so for this one I'll leave it out. Also AKss, AQss, AJss possible. Using this pretty tight range we have 60% equity, an easy call. What if we take out AJs and factor in a third of the AA/KK combos? 52% equity, again a call. Even against the range: AA-TT, AKss, sets, we have 39% equity, and as we need ~37% to call, its a pretty clear call for me.

Ofcourse at the table there ain't the time for all this, I'll probably end up snap calling them both

[HeyKidMove]

There has been a few responses so I'll go through my thinking and what I did in the hands.

Hand 1-There was a lot of dead money out there so I decided to reraise PF. I wasn't worried about the callers because I couldn't see someone flat calling and wanting more people in the pot with AA or KK, so I was really only worried about the original raiser. It happened to be the first caller that shoved over me which really surprised me. This instantly made me think AK since he flat called the raise, which didn't really make any sense to me if he had AA/KK. So I decided to call and he flipped AA. The original raiser timed out accidentally and said they had KK when the hand was over. I lost, but thought I made the right play in calling given my experience in that type of situation.

Hand 2-I pushed in this situation. I didn't think it was very likely that he held a set there, my thinking was TT or JJ, maybe 99. I thought about it and figured that was the most likely scenario given the PF action. He probably put me on AK and was thinking that he was good. He flipped JJ, and the ladies held up. I felt really good about the hand since my read was right on.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[phaul]

Only just seen this. As soon as I read the first hand, alarm bells started going off. This is almost always aces, occasionally kings and occasionally an AJ-type hand. But mostly aces. He's a donk who calls from EP so he can garner action and get his monster paid off, then when he gets more action jumps on it and shoves. Seen this happen loads. Having said that, you can't really be blamed for calling with Queens. Any worse is an insta-muck tho.

This move means he's either mega-good with air and good reads on everyone, or is rubbish and holds aces, occasionally Kings. And this is 25NL. So take a guess. Granted it can occasionally be a fish going mental, but I think you're beat soooo often here.

[Wyte22]

Hand 1: The villian who moved all in, is he loose or tight? If he is any bit tight, I am folding this instantly, but people assume that because they moved all in after limping, you'll be thinking they have AA or KK or AK. This is not true almost half the times i've called, in fact they are usually bluffing, unless they are tight. Tight players make this move because it is an action pot. Loose players make this move cuz they enjoy spewing chips in order to win a small pot. If my opp has any bit of looseness in his play over the past 20 hands, insta call, I am looking him up. Again, if he has been any bit tight, and showing down really good cards, I may or may not fold this, but then again, I R donk

Hand 2: Don't care about range for villian, I am jamming this pot. He committed around 10% of his stack PF, and Raised you on a good flop for you (no overcards). I am jamming this hardcore for 2 reasons:

1. if you just call, about 99.9999% sure, he will be all in on the turn, soo if your gonna play this all the way, set him all in RIGHT THERE. You will quickly see how committed he is to spewing off his whole stack.

2. If he has a draw like AK of spades, then I will make him committ his whole stack to beating me. If he is willing to part with all $25 dollars on a 33% draw, then by all means, 66% of the time, I will be taking your money to the bank.

[EliminateU]

hand 2: if he had AK of spades it isn't a 33% draw it is ~60% for him and 40% for your QQ to hold up...9 spades, 3 Aces, 3 Kings. But since that is just one of several hands an all-in is justified.

[Vito_Nuccio]

The first hand I would probably fold, but can not say 100% unless I am put to the decision under fire. Just reading through the hand history made me think they have KK or AA. The numbers could read call, but sometimes you have to listen to the poker voice from inside.

I am not folding QQ in the second hand. Villian raised 3XBB to .75, then you made it 2.50 to go. AA would/should have re-raised here and smaller pairs should fold. If they turn over AA, KK or a set, well you lose. But the play is correct and you should have trouble putting them on AA or the set with the pre-flop action. The only hand to really worry about would be KK. Villian could raise with these, call a re-raise, and bet that flop.

QQ is one of the tougher hands to play. They are high enough to win a good amount of hands. They are ranked 3rd or 4th best starters by most. They are vulnerable to flops containing aces, kings, and pairs. QQ is big enough to build and win big pots, but low enough to lose big pots also. You love and hate seeing QQ.

Thanks,