Do you ever Float?

[frob23]

I do once in a while but very rarely. I find it confuses certain players who don't expect me to be calling without a real chance of winning. Floating, for those who don't know, is calling a bet with a hand when you are not getting the correct odds to make the winning hand. The main idea is to call there and take the pot away on a later street.

The following hand is an example of floating. It's not played perfectly (in my mind) but it does give an example and it was the easiest hand to find because it was played earlier tonight.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($5.60)
MP ($8.95)
Hero ($3.85)
Button ($7.05)
SB ($3.45)
BB ($2.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, 2 folds, BB calls $0.25.

This is standard 6-max play. It folds to me in the CO... I raise with A-10o... the BB calls. I am not too worried about that call, as I have been fairly aggressive from late position and this person could be calling with a lot.

Flop: ($0.75) , , (2 players)
BB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50.

The flop is a mess and unlikely to have helped either of us. But the BB leads out for a 2/3rds pot-sized bet. I just do not see him making this bet with a 4 (nor the call pre-flop but that's another matter). I believe he could have a 9 but that's not extremely likely either. At this point, I think he's got me on two high cards and knows I likely missed.

I decide to float this flop and take the turn. I'm not a huge fan of floating but I believe that this is a good spot for it. I find it very unlikely that the BB has hit, I have position, the board's not coordinated so he's not going to assume I'm drawing, and so on.

Turn: ($1.75) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

My opponent has given up. I make an error and decline to bet at this point. I should have bet here, most likely. I feel good that if the river is safe, and he checks, that I can steal this pot. I am fairly certain my opponent does not have a strong hand at this point. If he has a 4, then he's disguised it so well that he'll likely get a decent river bet out of me.

River: ($1.75) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB folds.

The river actually helps me but that's unimportant. I was betting almost every card but a 9. I see no reason to not bet here and I put out a bet that's about what I would make on the end with a strong hand but might be called if he did have a 9 or a 10. I doubt it will be called often but it could be often enough to add some profit here. I don't see him calling a smaller bet (aside from a min-bet) and folding to this.

Final Pot: $1.75


Alright, I admit this isn't a perfect example of floating done well. I misplayed the turn for sure.

Anyway, who else has been known to float the flop on occasion and how does it work for you? Do you find it makes playing the hand harder or easier? Do you find it to be profitable or to be something that usually ends up costing you?

[Wyte22]

I float soo much that it looks like I can hover off the ground with just thinking about it!

[Vito_Nuccio]

I am less apt to do it in a cash game than a tourney. Stagnant blinds and ability to reload or leave at anytime gives me less incentive to float along and try to hit. Maybe a few tries if I am up 2-3 times my buy-in, not due to playing with free money, but if things do not pan out, not a dent to the roll either.

In a tournament, especially if you have a good read, hovering around can be tried a little more often. A big chip lead helps for the same reasons as above. Another time to take a chance and float along would be time related to blind factors. Your stack may be getting to the point where you have to shove but you have just enough to take one last shot at drawing to a win before the eventual pre-flop all-in bet.

On the other definition of float. I definitely float along in poker games when it comes to chemicals 'Floating' in my brain!

Thanks Frob.

Later,

[irishpkr]

If you never float, you are simply just too easy to play against. Doing it in position is >>>> out of position ofcourse. As you realised frob you should have bet the turn there

btw I more typical situation of a float (in my mind):

Preflop: Dealt Ts 9s on the button (6max)

1fold, MP raises to 4BB, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds


Flop: K52r

MP bets 6BB, Hero calls - This is the sort of board that gets cbet a shitload, but at the same time misses most of his opening range


Turn: 7

MP checks, Hero bets 14BB, MP folds - Theres the float play executed

[PointerJake]

I try not to float to often, I think it is a bad play. You run the risk of losing just as much as you win. I do however like to simi-bluff, where if I do hit I get a big payoff. But Im not gonna say I never float because I do but hardly ever in cash games.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by PointerJake I try not to float to often, I think it is a bad play. You run the risk of losing just as much as you win. I do however like to simi-bluff, where if I do hit I get a big payoff. But Im not gonna say I never float because I do but hardly ever in cash games.

It depends on your style, if your a conservative players, then you think it is a waste of money but to aggressive players, it is a tool in our arsenal of winning

If you deal AK to a Conservative and an aggressive player and both miss the flop, the aggressive player will see "How can I get this to the river the cheapest way possible?" and secondly he will ask "based on past history with this guy, has the flop helped him and if so, what's his range of possible hands". the conservative player will look at it and the flop and say "it's not worth it to chase"....and fold to the slightest of bets but the aggressive player will sometimes re-raises for information to see where he is in the hand and the possibility that implied odds will or will not hinder him on 4/5th street. Aggressive players will typically take more risk than conservative players and that is why you see VERY VERY few tourney winners that are good solid conservative players.

Also, a semi-bluff is basically floating. Because you really don't have anything and your hoping the turn or river makes your hands aka you float your cards.

Floating hands is MAINLY for tourneys (espically HU play), they lose value in cash games because people are typically looser in cash games and more willing to call you down because they know if they are wrong, they can just reach into their BR and pull out more money for the game. Where as tourneys, you made 1 good mistake, you either done or almost done.

The only expection to the float rule in tourneys is the first hour of a rebuy tourney, which is basically like playing a never ending cash game.

[irishpkr]

Personally I love the float play, ofcourse you can't just use it whenever, depends on whether, as Wyte said, the board is likely to help villain or not or if there are draws out. Also depends on your opponent too- I'm not gonna try and float some 75/10/2 drooler, but against the (few) thinking players at $50NL, I'm gonna mix this in.

Against such players it works quite effectively - if you play fit or fold poker you're simply too easy to play against, and its only gonna get worse as you move up limits

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by FROB23 Anyway, who else has been known to float the flop on occasion and how does it work for you? Do you find it makes playing the hand harder or easier? Do you find it to be profitable or to be something that usually ends up costing you?

I will do it on rare occasions when I know I've got a good solid read on my opponents. It works pretty well, especially against the more passive players. I don't think it makes playing the hand harder, but maybe a little more skillful thought is involved. I find that it's about 80/20 profitable versus cost, only because choosing the right times to do this is the key to implementing it successfully, but there will always be some players who will surprise you.

[gamer4life27]

Well, I only float on the flop when I think my opponent didn't hit the flop. Like the example you posted, it's very clear that he didn't hit that flop, and he was just trying to buy the pot on the flop. But those are the occasions that I 'float'. I don't like to call it floating, but more like calling the bet knowing that he didn't hit the flop and I'm going to try to steal the pot later on. Thats what it is most of the time anyways. You have no draw, no pair, no nothing. Some times not even two overs. It's a move to set you up for stealing the pot later on.

[phosphorescence]

in the examples given where you're in position and you call his bet on the flop, i suppose it's quite an easy decision when he checks on the turn.

if he comes out betting on the turn again do you usually lay the hand down regardless of whether you think your read is good, or will you raise him here?

[irishpkr]

I'm gonna give up on most turns, as most people aren't going to fire 2 barrels with air here. I might make a raise on the turn if:

Villain is a thinking player
I have history with the player of making moves, etc
A scary card for him comes
A card which I know he would want to double barrel comes

[Brooklynbum]

Given the passivity of most players online, I would surmise that some players who "float" don't even know that they're doing this. They're doing it because they're so passive.

Also I've noticed that a lot of players "float" on a draw such as a flush or gutshot or whatever they're chasing.

Additionally, players that are a little experienced know enough to put in a C-bet and won't have the guts to fire that second barrell.

Floating is just a post flop version of the stop and go IMO.

That being said, depending on the limits you play at the floating is a good strategy but one that I feel is used occasionally.

I would only float another player if I know he/she is over aggressive and I know I can take the pot away from him/her on a later street.

Those are mostly rare occasions though.

This is for cash games of course.

I don't know if this helps or not but I just felt like making a post...

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by phosphorescence in the examples given where you're in position and you call his bet on the flop, i suppose it's quite an easy decision when he checks on the turn. if he comes out betting on the turn again do you usually lay the hand down regardless of whether you think your read is good, or will you raise him here?

All depends. If he is an aggressive player, the flop may have missed him and the turn missed him to and he is trying to buy the pot. Here, I'd re-raise for information. If a rock/solid/conservative player bets me good on the turn, insta fold, any day of the week. I am behind and I will be investing money with 6 outs and 1 card to go. No thanks, I'll pick a better spot.

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by Wyte22 Here, I'd re-raise for information.

This is bad. By the time we reraise the turn, we will have invested almost half our stack, no 'information' is worth that much...

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by irishpkr This is bad. By the time we reraise the turn, we will have invested almost half our stack, no 'information' is worth that much...

If I am betting that much of my money PF and on the flop, son I am either folding on the fold or moving all in. YOU ONLY raise for info when the pot is small. Yes it commits your money to the pot but you also have a real chance to pick up the pot right there if they made a pair but it has a super weak kicker .......example:

Villian hold J2o

Flop comes: 59Q You Check he checks. Turn: J.....He pots, you re-raise for info but he see it as you made J to and have a better kicker, soo he can be very incline to fold.

You say you don't want waste money but this is all risks, that is what poker is. The only thing granuateed in poker is that you can go broke. Your not promised nothing else, so sometimes you need to manufacture some wins just to stay alive and profitable. If it doesn't work, oh well, at least you didn't committ yourself to the pot but if it does, you pick up small pot. Just a risk you sometimes have to take to gain an edge.

[irishpkr]

That is not a 'raise for info', its a pure bluff

[emoneypitt]

I will semi-bluff or float as it is called semi frequently at least after the flop as long as there isn't a big overbet or shove. For example, if I have Ah Th and the flop comes Jh 2h Qc. I'm definitely gonna call a pot bet here and try to take the pot down on a check.

It all depends on who you are playing and what kind of read you may have but as a general rule of thumb, this would be an example.

[rakmupagain]

In general I'd say this is more/less profitable in direct relation to skill or stake level. At the lowest levels, I would think it wouldn't be profitable, where weak players are more like to make bad calls on ur bluff on later street. This being said, I cant play the lowest levels very well cuz Im more apt to do it, lol