How much to bet on this river?

[emoneypitt]

Obviously I had my opponent here dead to rights on the river. I had noticed on a previous hand that he called a river bet with a pretty weak hand. In this particular hand, the flop came nice but the turn was a scare card possible made straight or a flush. I checked off the turn in case he was going to check/shove as he was short stacked. Then the river came for the quads.

I wanted to bet to make it look like I didn't have a monster and that if he did have a hand and shove, I had him so I made a 50% pot bet on the river. It worked as far as a call with a weak hand but in this situation, what would you usually do?

PokerStars Game #17779625859: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/05/29 - 17:27:30 (ET)
Table 'Ambrosia IV' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: mutesoo ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 2: hansolo85 ($5.35 in chips)
Seat 3: 08RoushSTG3 ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 4: hitting hard ($7.15 in chips)
Seat 5: emoneypitt ($44.40 in chips)
Seat 6: EGF Jo ($1.35 in chips)
Seat 7: zepps_1-0 ($28.55 in chips)
Seat 8: double_e5 ($24.50 in chips)
zepps_1-0: posts small blind $0.10
double_e5: posts big blind $0.25
EPetty: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to emoneypitt [7c 7s]
mutesoo: folds
hansolo85: folds
08RoushSTG3: calls $0.25
hitting hard: folds
emoneypitt: calls $0.25
EGF Jo: calls $0.25
zepps_1-0: folds
double_e5: checks
*** FLOP *** [9c 7d 4d]
double_e5: checks
08RoushSTG3: bets $1
emoneypitt: raises $1 to $2
EGF Jo: folds
double_e5: folds
08RoushSTG3: calls $1
*** TURN *** [9c 7d 4d] [Td]
08RoushSTG3: checks
emoneypitt: checks
*** RIVER *** [9c 7d 4d Td] [7h]
08RoushSTG3: checks
emoneypitt: bets $2.50
08RoushSTG3: calls $2.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
emoneypitt: shows [7c 7s] (four of a kind, Sevens)
08RoushSTG3: mucks hand
08RoushSTG3 said, "lol"
emoneypitt collected $9.65 from pot
EGF Jo said, "rofl"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.10 | Rake $0.45
Board [9c 7d 4d Td 7h]
Seat 1: mutesoo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: hansolo85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 08RoushSTG3 mucked [9s 8s]
Seat 4: hitting hard folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: emoneypitt showed [7c 7s] and won ($9.65) with four of a kind, Sevens
Seat 6: EGF Jo (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: zepps_1-0 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: double_e5 (big blind) folded on the Flop

[irishpkr]

Flop raise is waaaay too small, you're giving him incredible odds to draw to a possible straight/flush, and you don't need me to tell you that you're not builing much of a pot here with a minraise either. Raise flop to $3.5. I'd bet like 70% pot on the river, there or there abouts.

[bigfranky]

played the whole hand terribly imo should be raising the flop more to about 3-4 $ raising 70% turn and river 0.35/0.5 hes calling at least the turn bet

[phaul]

raise pre to about $1.20, as played raise flop to about $3.50, as played bet turn to about $3.50, if he check-raises then prob call and call a river bet or check behind, as played, by the river your hand is so massively under-repped that his calling range will be huge so bet to around $4. Basically as much as you can without it looking really fishy.

[Vito_Nuccio]

The pre-flop limp was OK with a few guests along for the ride as you usually want to improve these types of hands. On the other hand, I would raise pre-flop a decent percentage of the time since the hand can stand on its own in the right situations. What that number is up to the player.

Once flop came, I would raise a little higher than a double bet. 3-4 dollar raise would probably be it.

You did get good value on the river, I think he would have folded if the bet was much higher.

It is always nice to see quads.

Later,

[HeyKidMove]

I think that you should raise PF here some of the time, depending on how the table has been playing. I definitely think you should raise more on the flop, min raises are horrible, especially on a board with draw potential. You're giving way too good of odds to draw there, and if he has a hand like top pair (which he did), you're not gonna get much more money out of him if a scare card hits. I really don't think you get paid here on the river very often, I think he just made a horrible call.

[rakmupagain]

I always raise preflop here for value.(it's even better when some1 else raises for you.) The flop raise was way too weak, and the turn check is horrific. There shoulda been much more in this pot, which would allow you too bet more on river and still be a 50% or less bet. Especially if this guy was steaming, which apparantly he was. So to answer ur question, your overlookin how the entire hand was played, I think the river bet was the only good one.
What good is flopping a set in an unraised pot. If you move up levels, there are not many players who are goin to get involved in a nothing pot without a big hand/draw. If there are some chips in the middle, players are more likely to make plays at the pot etc.....
Its a great hand to discuss, because i believe it is misplayed most of the time at these stakes.
Good question and good luck, may u stack the donkey next time.

ON a sidenote, another reason to raise preflop is to get hands like j8 out of there, you have virtually no information on the range of ahnds you are up against. I actually think that if this hand was played out over and over again, same situation, u might even money in the long run because of the amount of times the straight will hit and u pay it off, instead of quads hitting or boat. Turning flopped sets into ev- situations is hard to do!

[st_ever]

I would go all in on the river. You wouldn't believe the amount of times you get called.

Your hand example isnt as good for this as the guy is so short but if you go all in you only need one guy to call every so often this makes it more profitable than the value bet.. In the long run.

[Wyte22]

I don't agree with river. If you know he made his hand and you are sure you have the nuts, put out 50-70% of the pot(less if he's tight, almost 85-90% if he's aggressive) on the river and let them hang themselves. Also, if he's aggressive, an overbet (not shoving all in) might make HIM shove all in.

I just think that if you shove in here, you lose out on increasing the pot size.