How much money to bring to the table? WORST BAD BEAT EVER!

[KayJay333]

I have been playing online poker for almost 4 years now on and off very frequently. from my original buy in of $100 I was able to turn that into enough money to buy a nice car. I won almost all of that off of tournaments though and aren't as experienced with cash tables.

I recently bought into Cake poker for $50 and turned that into $250 from strictly cash tables. I would buy in for the minimum at a $.10/.25 table or a .25/.50 and end up doubling up or tripling up. I was always told thought that this is a bad thing. apparently you are supposed to buy in for the maximum at tables? I tried this stategy one time at a table and got the WORST BAD BEAT I HAVE EVER SEEN!

I bought in for $50 at a table and was cruising along after 30 minutes up at about $85. Another guy at my table was crazy loose but was up big. He was betting with pretty much anything and going all in every few minutes. I finally waited for my move, I had KK on the button and he was in the BB. Someone before me raised to $1.5 so I re-raised to $4. The crazy guy called my $4 bet and the original raiser called. The flop came out Kc 4d 7d. Everyone checked to me, so I bet half the pot at $7 (didn't want them chasing flushes for cheap). The Crazy guy came over the top of me All in for another $70. I immediately called and he flipped over JJ. As excited as I was with about $160 in the pot and trip Kings, the turn came and it was a J, then the river came and ANOTHER JACK! Can you believe that? RUNNER RUNNER JACKS! FOUR OF A KIND!

I don't feel like I played this hand wrong, but I do have a question as to if I shouldn't have had that much money at a single table? I went on tilt after that and kept buying into tables for the minimum and losing all of it. I'm at like $5 right now trying to work my way back up again.

Is it bad to buy in for the minimum at a cash table? is it bad to buy in for the maximum? obviously it's not great to have $85 at a single table with a little less than $300 in my account, but I mean it was a 10 cent/25 cent limit table... What are you opinions on this?

[LeBaronNL]

Originally Posted by KayJay333 I have been playing online poker for almost 4 years now on and off very frequently. from my original buy in of $100 I was able to turn that into enough money to buy a nice car. I won almost all of that off of tournaments though and aren't as experienced with cash tables. I recently bought into Cake poker for $50 and turned that into $250 from strictly cash tables. I would buy in for the minimum at a $.10/.25 table or a .25/.50 and end up doubling up or tripling up. I was always told thought that this is a bad thing. apparently you are supposed to buy in for the maximum at tables? I tried this stategy one time at a table and got the WORST BAD BEAT I HAVE EVER SEEN! I bought in for $50 at a table and was cruising along after 30 minutes up at about $85. Another guy at my table was crazy loose but was up big. He was betting with pretty much anything and going all in every few minutes. I finally waited for my move, I had KK on the button and he was in the BB. Someone before me raised to $1.5 so I re-raised to $4. The crazy guy called my $4 bet and the original raiser called. The flop came out Kc 4d 7d. Everyone checked to me, so I bet half the pot at $7 (didn't want them chasing flushes for cheap). The Crazy guy came over the top of me All in for another $70. I immediately called and he flipped over JJ. As excited as I was with about $160 in the pot and trip Kings, the turn came and it was a J, then the river came and ANOTHER JACK! Can you believe that? RUNNER RUNNER JACKS! FOUR OF A KIND! I don't feel like I played this hand wrong, but I do have a question as to if I shouldn't have had that much money at a single table? I went on tilt after that and kept buying into tables for the minimum and losing all of it. I'm at like $5 right now trying to work my way back up again. Is it bad to buy in for the minimum at a cash table? is it bad to buy in for the maximum? obviously it's not great to have $85 at a single table with a little less than $300 in my account, but I mean it was a 10 cent/25 cent limit table... What are you opinions on this?

Let's do some math..

Plugging this into pokerstove gives us:
990 games 0.031 secs 31,935 games/sec

Board: Kc 4d 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 99.899% 99.90% 00.00% 989 0.00 { KdKs }
Hand 1: 00.101% 00.10% 00.00% 1 0.00 { JdJs }


---

so basically, in the long run, you will wine 98,9% of the $170 pot, making for an EV of $166. So, in the long run, you will win 166 dollar, you opponent 4.

Had you been sitting with 10 dollar, you would have an EV of roughly $19,5.

Had you not been sitting full-stacked, you would have missed out on an expected value worth 147 dollar!!

So mathematically, sitting full stacked has major advantages if you have confidence in your playing abilities. Sitting shortstacked isn't always a mistake, but take into consideration that you are possibly missing out on a lot of value.

Good luck at the tables!

[iceveins0901]

Also, if you were that worried about the flush draw, you should raise more than half the pot, as your half the pot bet gives him 3 to 1 to call if he were on the draw, more than good enough odds with 2 cards to come.

I still have not had my set beat by runner runner 4 of a kind, that is truly a bad beat.

One thing about Cash games is you do not have to play the same strategy of the tournies, you can just sit back and wait, with a full stack against a donk, what a perfect very profitable strategy.

Your play was fine was a big donk, and you did just get unlucky, get back on the horse and keep grinding out those cash games for profit!

[Fictive]

That is a bad beat, one that won't happen to most people in their lifetimes. As to how much to bring to the table, I can't tell you what would be correct in your case. Basically, if you believe/know you are a good player and make good profit in the game, as you said you do, always buy in for the max, you stand to make more profit, altough every now and then you lose the stack. Happens to me every now and then, but I just reload and slowly get it back during the session. On the other hand, some people are very good short stack players, that stand to double or triple their minimum buy-in. If you are satisfied with that, it's fine. Fact is, if you are a winning player, always take the max to the table with you, unless the other players on your table aren't playing with full stacks.

[infinii]

In addition to lebaron's excellent reply,

when you sit at a cash table and buy in short, you do not have the ability to protect hands when you're so short.

i.e. a raise preflop, you 3 bet with KK (by my estimates, if you bought in for minimum, you've put a quarter of your stack already). say flop comes QJ9 all spades and you have no spade. Extremely draw heavy flop. if you put in a cbet, you aren't leaving much behind to put in a decent sized bet on the turn.

[AnArkhos]

You need at least 5 max buy ins for a session in my opinion. I decide the amount acoording to the table present. A table where there are many big stacks or extremely loose playing (preferrably both), I tend to go for the min. stack approach and vice versa on smaller stack tables.

My worst badbeat would be a hand where I had double paired and suited hand ( if I recollect it right it was something like Q7sQ7s. I sat on the button so I made a 3-bet, and the BB raises a pot 2 ppl call in addition to me. I figured him on aces and as the flop came 667 rainbow, I was very happy indeed. On flop the BB bet the pot, one player in MP folded and the one to my right called. I reraised the pot, BB calls and dude to my right folds. the the turn was a blank card (like 2 or 3). The BB checks and I bet the pot (and this was in PL25 so it wasnt a small raise, since I already had gotten a few pots before), putting all my stack in the middle. I was kinda hoping him to call as he would have just 2 outs if I had put him on the right hand. BB calls and the river is an A. Needless to say that I cursed the fish for a few moments before reloading. I lost around 40$ or so into that hand, which which is pretty much in a single hand of PL25 omaha.

It's no the biggest sum, but it sure was badbeat.

[Sydenham]

[quote=Fictive;13933]That is a bad beat, one that won't happen to most people in their lifetimes.

What planet are you living on, pal? I've seen far worse. At hold 'em I've had kings beaten by kings, I've seen AK suited beaten by AK, and at Omaha I've had idiots RAISE with a gutshot and outdraw my top set and flush draw.

I played a bit of lower rate on FillTilt today; my premium hands were outdrawn by Q-9-6-6; Q-6-4-4 and Q-10-3-2; they call raises with shit like that.

[AnArkhos]

I suppose worst badbeats would be something like a str8flush agaisnt a royal flush. Anyone seen this happend?

I've seen worse ones than one I wrote about above but that was the worst I've been a part of.

[mogwai23]

I actually was on the givind end of this one, 5-5 NLHE game at the casino in niagara falls, i had 78 suited in the BB, button min raises getting a call from both SB and myself, flop came AA6 (6 was on my suit), checked around on the flop turn came a 9 of my suit giving me open ended straight flush, i check button makes small raise i call (could tell he was happy about my call), river came the miracle 10 giving me a straight flush thinking that he had a big hand i bet out, sure enough he makes a min raise, i then tank and go all in, he very happily calls and slams his hand over and he has AAAA, i flip my hand over and scoop a pot north of 2K, needless to say the gentleman was not happy and actually had to be escorted out of the casino

[AnArkhos]

The poor lad.

I mean how can u not slowplay ace quads?!

Thet u were one card short of dead there.. 8% on turn or what? Gotta say that this one teaches me not to slow ace quads if str8flushdraws are present..

[Fictive]

[quote=Sydenham;14355]

Originally Posted by Fictive That is a bad beat, one that won't happen to most people in their lifetimes. What planet are you living on, pal? I've seen far worse. At hold 'em I've had kings beaten by kings, I've seen AK suited beaten by AK, and at Omaha I've had idiots RAISE with a gutshot and outdraw my top set and flush draw. I played a bit of lower rate on FillTilt today; my premium hands were outdrawn by Q-9-6-6; Q-6-4-4 and Q-10-3-2; they call raises with shit like that.

Dude, it can't really get any more worse than that. I'll give you the percentages so you'll understand it. KK vs. JJ pre-flop the jacks have 18% chance of winning. In that situation the guy talked about, the flop came K-4-7. So, after the flop, KK was 99.90% to win, JJ was 0.10% to win. How the hell is it possible that you've seen "far worse"???

[liladypokerpro]

You definitely got a bad beat there.

As for your question, personally I think buying in for the max gives players a false sense of security and can cause them to play more loose than usual. (Just my opinion) Buying in for the minimum can also force you to play too tight, missing a lot of good opportunities. I'd suggest splitting it right up the middle. See how that does for you.

PS >>> IF YOU SENSE YOU ARE ON TILT, STOP PLAYING!!! You are your OWN worst enemy when you go on tilt, and if you don't quit while you're steaming, you'll go broke.