Poker Etiquette

[Roboligraphy]

Now I consider myself to be a fairly courtesy player although recently at a Cash game table, someone was slightly offended at how I played a hand. Just was curious if this would be classified as bad manner if you were playing in a live game.

Table was an extremely aggressive table with 4 guys competing to be the bully of the table, I've been sitting at the table for roughly 35 minuites and its a slight roller coaster ride (not losing any money but not winning any). When finally I get a hand which I enjoy slow playing; AA. This is how it went;

player 1: fold
me: call
player 3: fold
player 4: calls
player 5 : raise to 3 times the BB
player 6: calls the raise (he's SB)
player 7: calls (he's BB)

I sit there for a second and "accidently" put more money, once its dropped into the middle the dealer announces that I have to raise the minimum because it crossed the line. I sit there for a second feigning that I'm somewhat upset at this and proceed to put the minimum raise in.

player 4: folds
player 5, sits there for a second and looks at his cards and reraises me so that I would have to put 1/2 my chips in to play. He has roughly 200 and I have 150

Player 6: folds
Player 7, sits there for a second as if contemplating making a move but decides to fold.

I sit there for a second; wondering what exactly this guy has. I'm thinking AK, or KK possible QQ but he's been raising a lot, so if he is trying to bully with small suited connectors than I'm going to make him play for all his money and announce after a little bit of deliberation that I'm going all in.

Player 5, quickly calls.

He flips up KK and I flip up my AA, too which he is furious because of my "bad mannered raise". Long story short I turn an ace and win with 3 of a kind against his pair of kings. He takes the rest of his chips and leaves the table as soon as this hand is done claiming that he doesn't want to play with "rotten players". I just sat at the table and continued to play; I cashed out with 350 from my original deposit of 160. Now I want your opinion; Did I do anything wrong?

[HeyKidMove]

I would think that he was upset about the fact that you took so long to go all-in which he could have taken as you basically slow rolling him. You could have probably avoided it by just going all in once he raised half of your stack because he must have a hand thats going to call you there. But more than anything he was taking his anger out on you because he got the raw end off a cooler.

[frob23]

This was pure angle shooting. You're making use of a rule in an unintended manner in which to make a play outside the legal parameters of the game. By 'accidentally' putting in more than you should and making it appear like you're being forced into making the raise, you're playing unethically. If you wanted to make a minimum raise, make a minimum raise. Playing like this is just going to anger people.

Granted, this move is one which happens to be literally acceptable (actually forced by the betting lines) but I'd bet that abusing it will find you in a lot of unhappy games.

Did he have to raise? No. Did he play it perfectly correctly? Yes. Was he probably more upset about losing with K-K to your A-A? Yes. Did he have a right to also be upset about your angle shooting? Absolutely.

[Huskers314]

Originally Posted by frob23 This was pure angle shooting. You're making use of a rule in an unintended manner in which to make a play outside the legal parameters of the game. By 'accidentally' putting in more than you should and making it appear like you're being forced into making the raise, you're playing unethically. If you wanted to make a minimum raise, make a minimum raise. Playing like this is just going to anger people. Granted, this move is one which happens to be literally acceptable (actually forced by the betting lines) but I'd bet that abusing it will find you in a lot of unhappy games. Did he have to raise? No. Did he play it perfectly correctly? Yes. Was he probably more upset about losing with K-K to your A-A? Yes. Did he have a right to also be upset about your angle shooting? Absolutely.

Agree 100%. This was garbage and the dude has every right to lose respect for a player who does this. I think he actually made a quality decision by leaving the table rather than staying and causing a scene. Feigning going into the tank while holding aces is one thing, "accidentally" overbetting to fake an intended call is pure spew.

Sorry.....you asked for opinions.

[Roboligraphy]

Thats why I made this, I just never even thought about it. I looked at poker as a game of lying and deception and that the ends justified the means; and because its not cheating and the term "angle shooting" is new to me. Although I didn't break a rule I understand what you guys are saying; thanks for the feedback.

[liladypokerpro]

I had to re-read everything since I saw so many quotation marks on the word "accidental" ~ NOW I see why the fellow got so upset, and I do think rightly so. It's one thing to act weak when strong, but it's quite another to pull a "whoopseedoo" on someone. Sorry that it had such a negative effect, but live and learn...that's what we're here for!

[frob23]

Poker is about deception but when you misuse the rules to do something it's angle-shooting. It may be legal according to the rulebook but it goes against the intent of the game. A classic example of this is betting out of turn when you have no intention of betting. Since your out of turn bet is not binding, you can cause someone to check in front of you when they would have bet. Stuff like that is frowned upon.

Lying and deception are important parts of the game but you can't assume that everything goes. For example, if someone turns over a straight at showdown... it is wrong to announce, "Oh I have the flush," when you don't in hopes that the person will muck their hand and you'll be able to rake the pot. Your betting should be what says, "I have a flush," when you don't... not your words. And if that message doesn't get heard and you get called, that stinks but it's part of the game. And once a hand reaches showdown, the play is over and the time for tactics is over... the only thing that matters is hand values.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Don't worry about doing it once but if you make a habit of it you might find yourself asked to leave. I know more than one person who has been banned from a private tournament and cash game because they were constantly trying to shoot angles and get an edge by abusing the rules (like the betting out of turn mentioned above) rather than by card-play. Bet out of turn once, get warned by the dealer. Bet out of turn a dozen times, get warned by the floor. Keep doing it... find yourself a new game.

[Fictive]

Very bad manners with the "accidental" putting too much money in there part. I too would be really pissed about that, and rightfully so. In the end though, these types of things unfortunately happen from time to time from players, and the other guy, like someone mentioned already, was probably more upset about looking at the rockets than anything else.

[ungarstu132]

I think this is perfectly fine.

its a DIFFERENT story if you did it with the intention of deceiving the guy.

[HeyKidMove]

Oh whoops, I missed it where you put a little too much in on purpose. That is definitely crossing the line IMHO.

[Roboligraphy]

I'm working on another scenario that I will post after this one. Keep the feedback coming, thanks.

[Fictive]

Originally Posted by ungarstu132 I think this is perfectly fine. its a DIFFERENT story if you did it with the intention of deceiving the guy.

That's what he did, as he "accidentally" put too much money there. Hence the deceiving.

[MLitteer]

oooohhhhhhhhh so you intentionally accidentally raised???? within the rules, but unethical and not needed. makes ya feel dirty...... doesn't it?

[I Eat Gamblers]

There is nothing wrong with slow playing a hand or act like you have a weak hand, but pretending to be frustrated with the rules of poker is just wrong.

[rakmupagain]

NICE ONE, a little unethical maybe, but NICE ONE. What is so funny about this is that the same guy that was upset was ABUSING THE RULES AS WELL. He reraised when you "didn't mean" to put more money in the pot, good for you. SHIP IT. HE WAS TRYIN TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOUR "MISTAKE" he deserves it.
NO SHAME IN MY GAME, i put vaseline on my driver too, lol...

THe only thing that was bad about this was that you basically slow rolled because, he wasnt folding anything after the reraise anyway. Would he have been mad if there was a K on the flop instead of the ace?

[Jonathank]

you get it all in on the flop presumably. but knowing you, you probably woulda smoothed called the flop and the ace woulda scared him. and you both check the river.
but if you back raised pre flop (without the histrionics) it would get all in anyway.