sometimes i hate poker

[ninoizbored]

Stage #1007661045: Holdem No Limit $1 - 2008-06-18 07:00:34 (ET)
Table: ANGELA WAY (Real Money) Seat #9 is the dealer
Seat 9 - JOHNAN1981 ($179.40 in chips)
Seat 1 - GOTDANUTS165 ($228.77 in chips)
Seat 2 - DEMENTED7979 ($200 in chips)
Seat 3 - MONGOOSER ($59.65 in chips)
Seat 4 - TURDDLE ($117.65 in chips)
Seat 5 - RICHNUTTZ ($82 in chips)
Seat 6 - FONZMURF111 ($40 in chips)
Seat 7 - MASSWORM ($35.35 in chips)
Seat 8 - NINOISBORED ($31.50 in chips)
GOTDANUTS165 - Posts small blind $0.50
DEMENTED7979 - Posts big blind $1
FONZMURF111 - Posts $1

*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to NINOISBORED [Jd Js]
MONGOOSER - Folds
TURDDLE - Folds
RICHNUTTZ - Folds
FONZMURF111 - Checks
MASSWORM - Calls $1
NINOISBORED - Raises $4.50 to $4.50
JOHNAN1981 - Folds
GOTDANUTS165 - Folds
DEMENTED7979 - Folds
FONZMURF111 - Calls $3.50
MASSWORM - Folds

*** FLOP *** [Jc Ad 10c]
FONZMURF111 - Bets $1
NINOISBORED - Raises $7 to $7
FONZMURF111 - Calls $6

*** TURN *** [Jc Ad 10c] [5s]
FONZMURF111 - Checks
NINOISBORED - All-In $20
FONZMURF111 - Calls $20
*** RIVER *** [Jc Ad 10c 5s] [8d]

*** SHOW DOWN ***
FONZMURF111 - Shows [As Ah] (Three of a kind, aces)
NINOISBORED - Shows [Jd Js] (Three of a kind, jacks)
FONZMURF111 Collects $62 from main pot

*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($65.50) | Rake ($3) | Jackpot Rake ($0.50)
Board [Jc Ad 10c 5s 8d]
Seat 1: GOTDANUTS165 (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: DEMENTED7979 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: MONGOOSER Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: TURDDLE Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: RICHNUTTZ Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: FONZMURF111 won Total ($62) HI$62) with Three of a kind, aces [As Ah - P:As,P:Ah,B:Ad,B:Jc,B:10c]
Seat 7: MASSWORM Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 8: NINOISBORED HI:lost with Three of a kind, jacks [Jd Js - P:Js,P:Jd,B:Jc,B:Ad,B:10c]
Seat 9: JOHNAN1981 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
I guess it was a good play by him, but no raise pre flop is what really had me thinking. Did it seem like AA?

[bigfranky]

whats the point in him re raising pre your both so short it really doesnt matter

[HeyKidMove]

I don't really like his play there, and there's really no way you can put him on AA there, maybe KQ. You should be playing with a full stack too, if you can't then you shouldn't be playing such a high limit.

[MikeyInc]

I would have put him on K A. Why? cause of the better after the flop he did a smart move by taking advantage of your Hungry Eyes when you flopped the 3 J's. he had a nice read on you.

Question: what was your delay time between bets? .. were you right on top of it .. or were you thinking ?

[wilsonmja]

How many times do you flop a set of jacks and lose? You just have to shake it off. Even if he does raise pre-flop, there's no way you are laying down the set unless he hasn't played a hand all day and he goes apesh*t on the flop. These are the kinds of hands that pay us off, but sometimes we have to give a little back every now and then. This was one of those times. Period.

[wilsonmja]

Originally Posted by MikeyInc Question: what was your delay time between bets? .. were you right on top of it .. or were you thinking ?

How is this relevant in this situation?

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by MikeyInc Question: what was your delay time between bets? .. were you right on top of it .. or were you thinking ?

Originally Posted by wilsonmja How is this relevant in this situation?

The only reason I could see for asking something like this is because the size of the bet relative to the time taken to act can speak volumes about a player's hand.

[wilsonmja]

Ok, first of all, the play with AA was bad. There are quite a few draws on this flop and one of them happened to hit on the turn. The guy should have pushed either pre-flop or definitely on the flop.

Mikey, what a stupid thing to say that he had a good read on him. He flopped the freaking nuts, for one. If you see "hungry eyes" why just call? If AA thought JJ flopped a monster, then pushing is a no-brainer. The only reason, except there really isn't one, to call here on the flop is if you think the guy is bluffing and you want to look like you don't have an ace or you have a bad kicker and give him hopes of attempting a steel.

Now, I know that delay time and beet size and all that crap CAN be a huge indicator of somebodies hand strength. However, if you get carried away with that crap you're going to lose a lot of money. The better question (or questions) would be 1)What is your table repution 2)Had you been seen taking a long time to pretend like you you have a weaker hand before? 3)Now you can ask the other question.

In conclusion, people like to say that you cannot be results oriented. I agree with this, but I think that goes both ways. The guy with AA put himself in a bad situation by just calling on the flop. There were multiple draws here and if one had hut (as it did) your not going to be able to get off your aces very easily if in fact your opponent was semi-bluffing. Get them all-in while you got the nuts against a raiser for Christ's sake.

JJ on the other hand didn't play the hand badly. A lot of players would go broke there.

[wilsonmja]

OOPS, when I wrote that above statement I thought the T came on the turn. My bad. That would change a few things, however, I'm still getting them all in on the flop or re-raising preflop with AA. Not having the nuts on the flop, however, does change things a bit.

[Wyte22]

I think the call is good because YOU raised him. He had the nuts, why give off his hand by re-raising? your gonna do one of two things after that, fold or move in. True, it would be good to get all your money in there but if your gonna lose this hand, your gonna lose it regardless when your money goes in.

Personally, if you showed me that aggression, stop and go time I'd smooth call, with the intention of going all in on the flop regardless what came off, because if I went all in pre-flop and you called, the same card are STILL gonna come out.

I think the AA person made a solid play by just smooth calling and setting the trap. I think the JJ person made good plays, but as Dan Herrington says "If you lose cuz of set over set, it just wasn't your time to win" <----slightly paraphased.

[infinii]

AA played bad preflop

JJ played bad postflop.

When you put in that big raise on the flop and he calls. Did you pause to consider why he's calling? I didn't think AA but the first thing that came to mind is KQ. He either has KQ or AT here. He's not betting out and calling your reraise on a gut shot draw (not often).

You're push on the turn wasn't necessary had you took time to consider he might have flopped the nuts. You check the turn and he probably puts in a value bet on the river...you save money as a result.....pot control.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by infinii AA played bad preflop JJ played bad postflop. When you put in that big raise on the flop and he calls. Did you pause to consider why he's calling? I didn't think AA but the first thing that came to mind is KQ. He either has KQ or AT here. He's not betting out and calling your reraise on a gut shot draw (not often). You're push on the turn wasn't necessary had you took time to consider he might have flopped the nuts. You check the turn and he probably puts in a value bet on the river...you save money as a result.....pot control.

How do you say the AA was played bad pre-flop? there was a good size raise by the person with JJ. All he did was smooth call, if he re-raised, the JJ might fold because he might realize he is up against something bigger than him. Smooth call with intent to move in on the flop regardless how bad it is, like I said in last post, if your gonna lose, your gonna lose whether you put you money in on the flop or pre-flop.

Also, the JJ wasn't played bad post flop, but we need more information on each person. Without a complete set of info, we couldn't even begin to say what is right and what is wrong in this situation.

[wilsonmja]

I definitely agree that just calling pre-flop with AA was probably a good idea. There's a very good chance you will be heads up and that's a good situation with AA of course.

I also agree that the smooth call on the flop would scare me into thinking he had KQ especially since he just called the flop. KQ is a hand that lesser experienced players overplay so I'd be afraid of KQ and hoping just a big ace or a club draw.

Keep in mind that all this depends on a lot of unknown factors. I'm just saying in general, I agree with these two points.