PTOTW #21 Week 32 - August 2008

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by Legion III Without a doubt that was one of the most discouraging games I've ever played.

well you did pick a bad time to make a stand against my aggression.

[Legion III]

Originally Posted by Wyte22 well you did pick a bad time to make a stand against my aggression.

Yeah, I would say so. You stole my blinds with nothing 4 or 5 times in a row. And the one time I make a stand you have bullets.

Just wonderful.

[liladypokerpro]

lol well you gotta remember Wyte is typically a HU player, so his aggression is bound to filter over into other games. You did fine Legion, it was definitely an unusual game as far as the last ones go...I think for as many people as were in this one, this one was over faster than any others with as many people.

[Wyte22]

Don't worry, alot of you will get another shot at me tomorrow and I will be playing the same style- Hyper-Aggressive. Think of Gus and you'll have my style

Legion just a note:

If you want to make a stand, you need to re-raise 3x the Hyper-aggressive's raise. Hyper players do NOT like to be re-raised, we want to steal the pot as cheaply as possible, and if we do have a hand, we will re-raise your re-raise and let you know about it. Plus the JTo wasn't really a good hand to defend blinds with. Against Hyper players, AA-66.....AKs-A9s AKo-AJo and KQs-KTs are good defending hands for your blinds. Occassionally, Stuff like JTs, KQo can work but they don't have a very high win percent against someone who will play any two cards but nevertheless it is high!

On the note about the raise, it provides the same information without putting your tournament life in peril! Most hyper-aggressive style players will NOT push all in with air (unless it is a HU match then there are no rules, just insane shove-fests). Folding would be the option if we didn't have a hand, and our mark re-raised our air raise!

Hyper-aggressive players will play ATC, depending on position, and action in front of them and reads on players behind them/in front of them. I know Frob was a VERY solid player, soo any raise from him was to be respected. Just remeber, that when you play a hyperagressive player, there is absolutely no way to tell if a flop hit or miss them, but often times, second pair is good against hyper-aggressive players and Top pair is golden (assuming you have a decent kicker).

Just alittle info to help you play against the hyper aggressive styles Legion, cuz there are alot of players like this out there.

Also, Hyper-aggressive, are borderline maniacs lol They either build a massive chip lead fast, or they crash and burn before even taking off! Just alittle side note for ya

[Legion III]

Hey, I appreciate the tips Wyte. But you were loose and lucky in my estimation.

As for the specifics of that hand, I think your number of 3x a thief’s raise is a good number. But your raise was to 100. I had approximately 600 chips at the time. A raise to 300 would mean I am pot committed anyway, so why not shove?

Also I agree that J-10 is not the best hand to make a stand with, but my guess is that it was far better than the hands you had stolen my blinds with previously. I was just very unfortunate that in that hand you actually had the goods.

[liladypokerpro]

Well ya know, I could be upset about how I lost too, but the way I look at it is like this...Without luck, there would be the same people playing all the time, and nobody else would play, because the same people would always win. So the luck factor makes it more interesting. Yeah, sometimes it sucks, and sometimes we do things we shouldn't, but they don't call it gambling for nothing.

[Legion III]

Yeah that suck out on your hand was gut wrenching Lilady.

[liladypokerpro]

Yeah, well, like I said I've been through worse...when you play as much as I used to, ya kinda get used to it and learn to shrug it off after a while.

[frob23]

Originally Posted by Wyte22 I know Frob was a VERY solid player, soo any raise from him was to be respected. Just remeber, that when you play a hyperagressive player, there is absolutely no way to tell if a flop hit or miss them, but often times, second pair is good against hyper-aggressive players and Top pair is golden (assuming you have a decent kicker).

This was my exact problem with one hand. One with both you and Legion in it. You both probably forgot this hand but it stuck with me for a while.

I had raised 5xBB UTG with AQs. And the action folds around to you two in the blinds and you both call.

At this point, I knew I was basically screwed. I had about 900 left after my pre-flop raise and wasn't thrilled about putting 1/9th of my stack in on the flop with air if I missed. On top of that my UTG opening range is pretty well defined so you, Wyte, were going to have a pretty decent idea if the flop hit me. I could risk firing and representing the big pair, if I missed, but I had no way of knowing if you hit.

Flop comes out 6-T-2 which is obviously not going to hit my opening range. But considering how narrow my range is, I believe you're calling some hands with a 10 there because you'll be able to figure out if it's good fairly easily. We check around on the flop. And I should have bet here. But I don't like to make small bets into decent sized pots... so I was looking at risking at least 80 chips when I had no idea where I was in the hand and both players against me had a good idea what I had.

Turn makes the board 6-T-2-3 and obviously isn't helping my hand. Legion bets 20. That bet is small enough (in the 150 pot) that I am willing to call it to shutdown a bluff since I've shown weakness. Wyte sees the same thing and pops it up to 85. This is not horrible and if Legion had folded I might have called and checked out the river because Wyte easily makes this bet when sensing weakness to take down the pot. It turns out, I was right about that. But, Legion calls the raise. At this point, there is no way I believe Legion is betting... getting called... and getting raised... then calling with air. I have to believe he has something even if it's bottom pair. I fold -- and this is what my weak postflop play was bound to lead to.

The river paired 3s on the board, check-check, and Wyte takes the pot down with King high. I probably could have had this pot on the flop. But the turn is the part which messed me up. I rarely see calls after that sort of action when the player doesn't have at least a pair.