Fulltilt constant BadBeats

[vwpunk]

I actually stumbled upon this site because I was looking to see if people could give good recomendations on poker sites. I'm a little unhappy with Fulltilt, it seems completely unrealistic, that everytime someone has a pocket pair, there are usually 2 other pocket pairs on the board at the same time, or how often you can be 90% favor and the river flushes you out of a game. Just seems like it's a little predictable with the bad beats.
Anyone else get that? Is there a site that doesn't seem like the hand is predetermined?
For instance I am playing mid pockets 99, My opponent has AdQd
The Flop comes 9d 2d 7d
I just flopped a set and knowing the Flush is out there, but i'm short stacked and probably got my best chance to get back in it, I push all in and of course get called to reveal he has just flopped an A high flush. And this is a very consistant thing with Fulltilt. It's as if Fulltilt is trying to force the play and get the tournaments or sit n gos to go quicker by giving a great hand only to let the larger stack take it down to reduce the playing field. If it happened just once in a while I would think it's just poker and I took a bad beat, but it's every single sit n go I play in, sometimes I'm on the good end of it, but it's just completely unrealistic that it happens as often as it does...
any insite on this?

[awolfyavis]

It's Poker...I saw the same thing happen numerous times in a live casino game last weekend.
Hate the playa, not the game...

[nigga z]

I play on full tilt also and am always getting dealt hands that get crushed by 1 or 2 outers.Like you said, if it happened every once in a while it would be just another poker beat. Losing 5-10 games in a row to unbelievable beats is just UNrealistic and improbable. Not sure why that is, but there has to be some kind of logical reasoning other than bad luck.A friend of mine told me that I should look into the astroligical approach to it, sparked some interest.. All you can do is play your best game and hope your cards hold up, maybe even switch games. GL

[MikeyInc]

full tilts engine is profit based.. which means the guys that are new or haven't played much get the win per hand.

then again the guys that invest 1000's a month win as well. See what i'm saying?

To win You got to PLAY .. Bad beats are just a part of the game

[vwpunk]

Originally Posted by MikeyInc full tilts engine is profit based.. which means the guys that are new or haven't played much get the win per hand. then again the guys that invest 1000's a month win as well. See what i'm saying? To win You got to PLAY .. Bad beats are just a part of the game

I figure it's got to be proffit base. I keep having people tell me I'm crazy and it's just poker blah blah blah, but I play at least a couple of games a day for the past 2 years on full tilt, and I can almost completely predict what's going to happen. If I have 77, I know there will be a QQ. If I have AJ, I know there will be an AK and an A7, and the A7 will win the pot. I figure they do this to force more all ins and quicker games, that way we keep playing and they get more rakes.
I don't have alot of experience with other sites, so I wonder it Pokerstars, or any of the other big sites do this. I don't like playing the lottery, I wanna play poker....
They defineately use a flow chart of some kind, and the bet and decision you make dictates the cards that will actually fall. It's not random at all...

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by vwpunk I figure it's got to be proffit base. I keep having people tell me I'm crazy and it's just poker blah blah blah, but I play at least a couple of games a day for the past 2 years on full tilt, and I can almost completely predict what's going to happen. If I have 77, I know there will be a QQ. If I have AJ, I know there will be an AK and an A7, and the A7 will win the pot. I figure they do this to force more all ins and quicker games, that way we keep playing and they get more rakes. I don't have alot of experience with other sites, so I wonder it Pokerstars, or any of the other big sites do this. I don't like playing the lottery, I wanna play poker.... They defineately use a flow chart of some kind, and the bet and decision you make dictates the cards that will actually fall. It's not random at all...

I swear I might have lost some IQ just reading this...

[vwpunk]

Originally Posted by irishpkr I swear I might have lost some IQ just reading this...

Well I can explain to you what flowcharting is if you would like, but this is a poker forum.
I guess one I won't be sticking around since this must be how you treat noobs who make an observation about their own experiences with a poker site and are just looking for some insite on other poker sites... thanks for the reply and not being a Jerk...

[123bird]

Originally Posted by vwpunk I actually stumbled upon this site because I was looking to see if people could give good recomendations on poker sites. I'm a little unhappy with Fulltilt, it seems completely unrealistic, that everytime someone has a pocket pair, there are usually 2 other pocket pairs on the board at the same time, or how often you can be 90% favor and the river flushes you out of a game. Just seems like it's a little predictable with the bad beats. Anyone else get that? Is there a site that doesn't seem like the hand is predetermined? For instance I am playing mid pockets 99, My opponent has AdQd The Flop comes 9d 2d 7d I just flopped a set and knowing the Flush is out there, but i'm short stacked and probably got my best chance to get back in it, I push all in and of course get called to reveal he has just flopped an A high flush. And this is a very consistant thing with Fulltilt. It's as if Fulltilt is trying to force the play and get the tournaments or sit n gos to go quicker by giving a great hand only to let the larger stack take it down to reduce the playing field. If it happened just once in a while I would think it's just poker and I took a bad beat, but it's every single sit n go I play in, sometimes I'm on the good end of it, but it's just completely unrealistic that it happens as often as it does... any insite on this?

Agree with you 100%.

Bad beats on full tilt have become as bad, if not worse than Jokerstars.

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by vwpunk Well I can explain to you what flowcharting is if you would like, but this is a poker forum. I guess one I won't be sticking around since this must be how you treat noobs who make an observation about their own experiences with a poker site and are just looking for some insite on other poker sites... thanks for the reply and not being a Jerk...

I'm quite aware what a flowchart is, but the anecdotal musings of one person isn't going to convince me of the rigging of a site. Its tough to choose between this theory, or the current evidence that the site ISNT rigged - ie the regulations/checks in place by the relevant authorities which are hopefully covering our asses...

Btw- jerk*

[vwpunk]

Originally Posted by irishpkr I'm quite aware what a flowchart is, but the anecdotal musings of one person isn't going to convince me of the rigging of a site. Its tough to choose between this theory, or the current evidence that the site ISNT rigged - ie the regulations/checks in place by the relevant authorities which are hopefully covering our asses... Btw- jerk*

ok, well you try playing the short stack sit n gos with 300 starting chips, almost every other hand someone pushes all in, sometimes 3-4 people at once. It's very funny to see how many cards are being shown at this time and you can almost completely predict what will come on the flop, and what will happen on the river. try just playing about 10-15 games of this style on fulltilt, and just observe the cards. You will see a definate pattern of ridiculous beats. I wouldn't even think twice about it, if it wasn't for the fact that it happens over 10 times in a 20 minute game...
And I don't know you from a whole in the wall, but I certainly wouldn't imply that you have a subpar IQ without knowing you. Maybe next time try introducing yourself to the noobs and give them an objective answer without demeaning them..

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by vwpunk ok, well you try playing the short stack sit n gos with 300 starting chips, almost every other hand someone pushes all in, sometimes 3-4 people at once. It's very funny to see how many cards are being shown at this time and you can almost completely predict what will come on the flop, and what will happen on the river. try just playing about 10-15 games of this style on fulltilt, and just observe the cards. You will see a definate pattern of ridiculous beats. I wouldn't even think twice about it, if it wasn't for the fact that it happens over 10 times in a 20 minute game... And I don't know you from a whole in the wall, but I certainly wouldn't imply that you have a subpar IQ without knowing you. Maybe next time try introducing yourself to the noobs and give them an objective answer without demeaning them..

I just find it hard to treat this 'evidence' as objective, as by its very nature it can't be. You've invested money to play in these tournaments. You and I, and every poker player out there, we all HATE to admit a mistake. We all HATE to lose. Losing hurts, and I think for most people losing hurts a damn sight more than the joy of winning the same amount. People typically dwell on the bad things that happen as a result.

My objective answer was already given - measures are inplace to show up any irregularities, and are much tighter since AB/UB were found out. But seriously, if you think 10-15 short tournies is enough to see this amazing pattern, I can only say: sample size.

[vwpunk]

Originally Posted by irishpkr I just find it hard to treat this 'evidence' as objective, as by its very nature it can't be. You've invested money to play in these tournaments. You and I, and every poker player out there, we all HATE to admit a mistake. We all HATE to lose. Losing hurts, and I think for most people losing hurts a damn sight more than the joy of winning the same amount. People typically dwell on the bad things that happen as a result. My objective answer was already given - measures are inplace to show up any irregularities, and are much tighter since AB/Ultimatebet were found out. But seriously, if you think 10-15 short tournies is enough to see this amazing pattern, I can only say: sample size.

I do not know what happened to ultimatebet? I said 10-15 for someone to try and just observe. I have probably played over 1000 on fulltilt, so I have much more than sampled this.
I will be the first to admit a mistake. I am talking about bad beats though, not mistakes. I wouldn't feel like I made a mistake if I call an all in with AA and the guy who pushed in has A7, but in turn he gets a flop of 568 and a 9 comes on the river. This is very commin it seems, and has got me thinking Fulltilt is running something to make games go quicker.
what sites do you play at? you obviously don't feel like you are being taken. So I would like to know where I can play with such security...

[irishpkr]

I personally play at Pokerstars, if only there was rakeback with them

Even 1000tournies is still a pretty small sample of hands. My point wasnt making mistakes in play, was more giving a leadup to the point that people treat losing differently to winning. You could play a session perfectly and play one hand terribly - the thing you'll remember is that cockup. Same for these 'bad beats' - when you AA against KK allin preflop, and the aces hold, you think nothing of it - "AA SHOULD beat KK!". But KK will win roughly 1in5 times, but you notice them more! It feels like a travesty of justice! How can KK win there!?

Just as a totally extreme example, take a massive hurricane somewhere that kills thousands. It happens so rarely, but sticks in people's minds so much. We take for granted that nothing will happen today, but why so? We never think about when a disaster DOESNT happen do we? I guess it's just the way the mind works or something

And if you're multitabling online, you're gonna have more 'bad beats' hurtling at you left right and centre. And most of these allin fests are really badbeats at all. I mean something like QQ only beats A9 and TT say, about half the time

Re: Absolute, there was a 'superuser' account found, which meant some guy could see people's hole cards, as far as I remember

[PiJuice15]

Originally Posted by vwpunk ok, well you try playing the short stack sit n gos with 300 starting chips, almost every other hand someone pushes all in, sometimes 3-4 people at once. It's very funny to see how many cards are being shown at this time and you can almost completely predict what will come on the flop, and what will happen on the river. try just playing about 10-15 games of this style on fulltilt, and just observe the cards. You will see a definate pattern of ridiculous beats. I wouldn't even think twice about it, if it wasn't for the fact that it happens over 10 times in a 20 minute game... And I don't know you from a whole in the wall, but I certainly wouldn't imply that you have a subpar IQ without knowing you. Maybe next time try introducing yourself to the noobs and give them an objective answer without demeaning them..

Lol, that's your problem, playing those "super turbos" of course people will go in with junk hands, Ax, any two paint cards etc. Those are not real poker, those are pure luck. Just sit there and wait for an Ax hand and push all in, I won several of those like that, but they are not real poker. You will see nothing but all-ins in those tourneys, so you see more hands go to showdown and what you call "bad beats."

[AnTman_69]

Wow. This is just so rediculous i dont know why im posting a reply to this topic.

The losses you are suffering by 1/2 outers or wat ever are not bad luck....in fact...these things have to happen. If you your a 90% favourite....it means you'll win 9/10 times. So u Have to lose one.

You are obviously on some kind of downsing/ bad run. Bad beats happen..and sometimes can continue for periods of months or longer, or put another way, can happen for upto a 100,000 hands if your super unlucky. I had a downswing a couple of months ago. On full tilt. I played around 25 k hands of losing poker. Moft it bad beats, and some if it bad play.

Full tilt or any poker site have no reason whatsoever to rig games, or personally choose what cards come out at any given time. They make bazillions of dollars every year from Rake. You need to understand that poker is a LONG TERm game. Understand the concepts of negative variance and ev...and you will understand what poker is all about.


Ant

[TomodachiSamurai]

Originally Posted by vwpunk I actually stumbled upon this site because I was looking to see if people could give good recomendations on poker sites. I'm a little unhappy with Fulltilt, it seems completely unrealistic, that everytime someone has a pocket pair, there are usually 2 other pocket pairs on the board at the same time, or how often you can be 90% favor and the river flushes you out of a game. Just seems like it's a little predictable with the bad beats. Anyone else get that? Is there a site that doesn't seem like the hand is predetermined? For instance I am playing mid pockets 99, My opponent has AdQd The Flop comes 9d 2d 7d I just flopped a set and knowing the Flush is out there, but i'm short stacked and probably got my best chance to get back in it, I push all in and of course get called to reveal he has just flopped an A high flush. And this is a very consistant thing with Fulltilt. It's as if Fulltilt is trying to force the play and get the tournaments or sit n gos to go quicker by giving a great hand only to let the larger stack take it down to reduce the playing field. If it happened just once in a while I would think it's just poker and I took a bad beat, but it's every single sit n go I play in, sometimes I'm on the good end of it, but it's just completely unrealistic that it happens as often as it does... any insite on this?

As with any poker game and with any site, bad beats occur on a regular frequency. This is called variance. Bad beats occur usually by the betting pattern. If you were the short stack depending on the blind levels and who's left to act, pushing ALL IN before the flop gives the person holding AQd one option rather than seeing the texture of the flop first before he or she decided to call your all in on the flop. Also study your players consistently, your given a section to place notes on every player you contend with. Bad beats occur no matter what. A pair of nines, you're slight favorite to "Little Slick" but using "race odds" before the flop by going all in as the shortstack might've caused a fold. It depends on who're your playing. This goes with taking notes on your opponents in the event you play them again. Taking notes on players, allows you to know their betting pattern, and the range of cards they do play verses the range of cards you would play against that particular opponent. Your objective in Sit N Go Tournaments is not elminate players but simply play straight clean poker. Online poker, there's too much bluffing, because of this factor alone will allow you to monopolize a table, to do this will require you to continously monitor your opponents even when you're not involved in a hand. Watch what they played, how they played it and their position when they played it. I tend to beat many opponents because of note taking its taking those notes that serve as a reminder that I played "this opponent" before and how they play allows me to manuever around them and out play or set traps to double up or cause them to reconsider their hand against mine.

[vwpunk]

I appreciate the input guys. I did a little research on poker algorithms. just to see how the hands were dealt in an online event and found some usefull info.

"In a real deck of cards, there are 52! (approximately 2 to 226 power) possible unique shuffles. When a computer
shuffles a virtual deck of cards, it selects one of these possible combinations. There are many algorithms
that can be used to shuffle a deck of cards, some of which are better than others (and some of which are just
plain wrong)."

So there are literally millions of possiblities for a deck to be shuffled in a certain manner, I don't feel as though I am being cheated or the system has it in for me, I've just observed a particular number of hands coming in time after time that seem to be the exact same conclusion, whether I'm on the good end or bad end the outcome of the cards played seem to fall a certain way more often than not. So I'm thinking out of the endless possibilities of card shuffles that could be played, only a small handfull, say a few thousand variences are actually being used.

In any event you are currect, the small turbo rounds are killing me in particular. When I play tournaments or 45 or more I seem to fare very well, my problem is I don't have alot of time to play poker when I hop online for an hour or so, I wanna get a few quick games in. So I find myself playing alot less tournaments and more turbo SnGs. I guess I just need to quit playing those
I started fulltilt with a 50 deposit, and built it up playing cheap tournaments because I'm not a baller. but I ended up with a 500 bankroll, and now I've lost about 80 of that playing SnGs. So I guess i just need to find more time and get back into tournaments...

thanks for everyones input, let me know where you like to play...

[realpatton]

sometimes it works in your favor. i've got quads once in my life in a live game. i got quads three times last week on fulltilt. twice i beat full houses. just know that these things can happen and don't over play your hands. smile when it works in your favor.

[Brooklynbum]

So you built up your bankroll on FT from $50 to $500 and you're complaining about getting bad beat for $80?

I wonder how many times you drew out against a favorite? Once? Twice? Never?

Probably too many times to talk about and the funny thing is that you probably think you deserve those suckouts.

Funny how emotion and need plays into the game for some people.

I'm kind of getting tired of hearing bad beat stories and how poker is rigged etc. You lose some and you win some.

That's poker. That's life.

Learn to deal with it.

[vwpunk]

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum So you built up your bankroll on Full Tilt from $50 to $500 and you're complaining about getting bad beat for $80? I wonder how many times you drew out against a favorite? Once? Twice? Never? Probably too many times to talk about and the funny thing is that you probably think you deserve those suckouts. Funny how emotion and need plays into the game for some people. I'm kind of getting tired of hearing bad beat stories and how poker is rigged etc. You lose some and you win some. That's poker. That's life. Learn to deal with it.

once again, I think you missed the point of my dealings. I'm not complaining I have taken a bad beat. I said I made most of my money in tournaments, and have lost some in SnGs.
I did not lose 80 on one hand on a bad beat. Once again it's just an observation I have made on my time playing there. If you reread my post you will see I have said I have been on both the good end and bad of the suck out, said nothing about me thinking I deserve a suckout.
I wonder why half of you who have posted in this topic are negative towards me? You think I'm implying that it only happens to me? I'm not, I know "that's Poker" you aren't saying anything original here. This is nothing about emotion and being upset, I'm telling you I have been on the good end of these as well, of course I wouldn't be upset or emotional about that. Once again, Just an observation of online and how often monster hand are beaten by monster hands, as opposed to real life shuffle up and deal where I can play all night and not see the kind of hands that pop up constantly online...