Could You Fold That?

[alw4ysontilt]

well on the last few days i started to look on youtube for big laydowns, few times i found myself calling in a spot where i just know im beat, and i get the best price ever to call and i found myself calling where i know i was beat, so i was looking for big laydown that shows what good player built off, and wanted to share with u guys.
so i decided
COULD YOU, FOLD THAT HAND?

hand 1. WSOP ME, full house jacks over 10's fold to kings over 10's

YouTube- World Series of Poker WSOP 2008 Best...

hand 2. phil hellmuth fold AK on A22Q rainbow board. [ i can dodge bullits baby ]

YouTube- "I can dodge bullets,...

hand 3. tom durrrr dwan fold trips on Q 10 10 flop, with 3 players

YouTube- The Best laydown ever in poker

hand 4. WSOP ME Schwartz fold the king high flush

YouTube- FOLD FLUSH WITH KING HIGH!!! EXCELLENT...

hand 5. Denial Negreanu folds buttom set

YouTube- Daniel Negreanu best fold ever

and just a funny one to the end, u must see this one hahah

YouTube- BEST LAY DOWN EVER

So could u fold that ?

[economist89]

Missing the durr hand.

K full vs J full:
Fold! 6xbb raise out of the big blind suggest QQ, KK, AA, AK, maybe AQ, maybe TT. If QQ, AK or AQ there obviously would be no reraise, I'm assuming Geller isn't a total maniac. The rest of the hands beat you. You could beat tens full, but this would imply he raised 6xbb w/ something like a A-10 or K-10 which is a little absurd. Plus, given that the blinds are at 100, this might be very early in the tournament and 6k may be a big chunk of your stack. Though I have to worry that I underrepresented my hand b/c I didn't raise w/ JJ, but still the logic above prevails.

For Phil's hand:
Fold! The Passintino guy is total idiot given his table talk and the checked flop (no cbet) which create too much suspicion. And I obviously wasn't playing at the table, but it's my guess that Passintino was a very tight player and would only reraise w/ QQ (most likely if he's tight), AQ ("statistically" likely, but not likely if he's tight), AA (possible), all that beat Phil. It's just too suspicious to check the flop then overbet (10k into 7k pot) on the turn making it look like a steal and Phil saw through that. Also, though Phil said he could dodge bullets, he put him on QQ.
edit: I wrote this in the second post, but just to emphasize in the edit, I think a call is good here (esp if online), just to see where I'm at.

For K flush vs. A flush:
I won't lie, I'd probably call, but this is foldable. I don't think Demidov would bluff on a four flushed board especially after I've shown strength and he wouldn't play this that aggressive w/ Q high flush. He'd check/call w/ a Q high flush. Great lay down by Shwarz.

Negreanu and his set:
Not sure. The board is 4J27, Matusow would only call w/ a pair of jacks, set of 4s, or a flush draw. Set of 4s beats him and the flush draw got there. I say "not sure" b/c I would only be concerned that he had AJ/KJ/QJ/TJ and was semi-bluffing the turn on a flush draw, or that he made kings and jacks on the river and was betting for value.


Here's the take away. IMO you can make great lay downs only if you're playing against good players that won't for example bet a Q-high flush in Demidov vs. Schwarz or reraise 6xbb w/ A-10 or K-10 out of the bb in the first one etc. This leads to me to say that there exists (Nash?) equilibrium: good players against good players will play good, but a good player at a bad table may have to play bad. For example, at a good table, it's definitely the best move to fold a 3 bet w/ AJ suited, but at a bad table AJ suited may be the best hand so you're tempted to play.

[alw4ysontilt]

well thx for the big comment i edited the durrr fold,
i do agree with some of ur folds, but i dont think i could for the ful lhouse jacks over 10's its too big of a hand to fold in this spot, only kings or aces beat u, there is a small fold equaty but usually u shouldnt fold this spot, NEVER. this time the fold was right, but cant the guy raise with just a queen? it is possible, or a worse full house for ex' 10's over aces hand like A10 orsomething like that...

2nd hand, i must admit its an impressive fold, there are only 2 hands that can beat u in that spot, AQ or AA, its really hard to put ur opponent on AA once u have an ace in ur hand, AQ is possible but menz, need great poker skill to fold there.

3rd hand of durrrr it is a hard fold but its obvious black got the other 10.

4th hand, in this spot raise preflop hand, only HU its really hard to put ur opponent on A high flush once u have King high flush, after the board pair on the river it is a possible fold but still it is a great fold.

5th hand, the only thing daniel lose to is the flush, its possible he got it the way matesow plays.

[economist89]

Now that you add the durr hand, durr didn't lay anything down, he bluffed.

I take back the Hellmuth hand, not sure if I would fold, though online I would've called for sure. It's the other guys table talk and behavior that would keep me guessing.

[alw4ysontilt]

well i linked the wrong durrr hand, now it is good look at the hand now, and tell me if u could for that, i would have call one street maybe but its a though hand to play.

[dew12109]

There is a a really good Durrrr hand that happened on a cash game of Poker After Dark. It was between Bob Safai, Antonius Esfandiari and Durrrr.

[alw4ysontilt]

thx ill look and add :P soon update.

Dew, i couldnt find the hand, will u please give a link and show me? if thats possible ofc :]. thanks

[economist89]

I think the durr hand was probably the easiest fold of all of them. The 3 kicker is so ugly, it's not worth putting 42k when your stack is 73k. Though I'm a little worried that Andy may think I have Q and might try to bluff me out of the hand, but the situation is so marginal, you just have to find a better spot.

[alw4ysontilt]

yeah , but on a three way pot when u got a 10, u flop trips usually u shouldnt play in a short handed against QQ or the other 10, the chances are so low, still he made a great fold and im not sure i could do it, i think the part made him do that it is andy black, i didnt saw him bluff very often, so the way he plays ofc helped him, am i wrong?

[economist89]

As for "chances," if you were to have two cards faced down, the probability that the remaining ten is one of those cards is low, but that's not taking into account that there was a massive reraise which probability calculations don't take into account.

I think the key here is that Andy obv won't bluff into a three way pot, esp with a reraise which is just 2.5xmin raise. So it's clear he has a 10, and basically any hand w/ a ten except 10-2 beats you. If he had a Q, I don't think he's going to reraise to see if it's good, so anything but a raise is the right play if he had a Q.

[liladypokerpro]

Honestly I think these are just great examples of respect amongst players as well as confidence in one's reading ability. Each had a solid read on their opponent and showed them respect as such. Granted, most average Joe players wouldn't dream of folding most (if any) of those hands, but that's what makes us "average"

[ballboy75]

speak for yourself "Joe"!!
I taught those players everything they know.

[liladypokerpro]

Love you too, ballboy

[alw4ysontilt]

lol u guys are too funny, i agree with ur post about the 10 and queen, durrr is a donkey but a good player in the same time lol, he hits so much aswell of good plays ^^, geez i so him call on omaha hi 15k bet on the flop all in on JJ6 Board with hand 8864 with no flush draw
and the turn was a 8, what a lol ^^.
the opponent ofc had 4 overs and the nut flush draw ^^.

[alw4ysontilt]

wow ballboy ur such a lier, i provide consultation during the WSOP to phil ivey, phil hellmuth and ofc the best donkey, tom dwan