Do you really play 'everything' heads up?

[gamer4life27]

Say chip stack and blinds were no issue. Blinds at 1k/2k, ante of 200, and you each have a stack of 350k. Is even playing 7 2 off suit here ok? Many people have said that there are some hands that you don't play, even with blinds and stack no issue, but others (like me) say that you should at least call with your hand, except for one hand, 7 2 off suit. What are your opinions?

[liladypokerpro]

Oh, I wish there was a "depends" choice on the poll. I can't say definitely yes or definitely no, because I judge according to the player I'm up against and their range and their style (whether passive or aggressive), as to what I will or will not play against them heads up. I do like to at least see the flop, especially if it's cheap or free...but up against a good sized bet/raise, I'd really have to judge according to the aforementioned notes.

[Jarlsberg]

Since Q7o is the median hand, I'll play anything better than that. I might put a bet in with something worse than that if the occasion demands it, but I'll very rarely flat-call the blinds heads up.

[frob23]

7-2 is not the worst hand heads up... that's 2-3o. But the decision to play a hand isn't based completely on the strength of it. The aggressiveness of your opponent matters a lot. If you're going to face a raise if you limp... and maybe a reraise if you raise... then you might want to let the worst of the worst hands go.

[Vito_Nuccio]

Heads up, anything goes. Raising before flop with 72 is fine. Not that I play it extensively, but any hand can be played, especially if you have been heads-up for a number of hands and you are getting decent reads and feelings.

Later,

[stoffmakers]

raise 2-7 on the button and c-bet on the flop. just pretend like u have aces when you are doing it tho.

[gamer4life27]

liladypokerpro: Well, anyone would have to think on those situations. This is to see if you were to play hands such like 3 4 off suit on the button. Not just call or raise, but if yoru going to stay in at that moment or fold it.

Jarlsberg: But that leaves a lot of hands untouched, such as the small connectors like 8 9, or 6 7, or even 3 4.

frob23: Well, kinda. 7 2 has the least potential on any flop, but 2 3 suited or not does have some chance at a wheel, or pairing. And if he's raising every single time you limp, then me personally, I would call with some hands I wouldn't normally because he's too aggressive.

stoffmakers: Whats c-bet? But if you raise too much, then they will call you eventually, and catch something that you don't want them too because you were too aggressive.

I think thats everyone.

[liladypokerpro]

Hey Gamer.......thanks for clarifying......oh and btw, "c-bet" = continuation bet

[Wyte22]

Dolye Brunson said something about this before, play the players not the cards.

Yes, I will pot raise with 72o IF I sense weakness from my opp. If he re-raises me, and I still feel he is playing me (which is rare), I will move all in. I am very aggressive in HU play, I only have 3 buttons on my interface, fold/massive raise/all in. I don't like to call UNLESS i am slow playing something huge, just waitting for him to check up soo I can take him to the cleaners.

Here's an example:

$5/$10 Cash game on Full Tilt, Heads up

Hero ($1000)
Donkey ($500).

Hero is Dealt JdTd, Hero raises it to $30, Donkey re-raises to 75, Hero calls $45

Flop: 8d9d3d

Hero checks, Donkey bets $88, Hero calls $88

Turn Qd (str8 flush for me hehe).

Donkey check, Hero checks

River: 9s

Donkey bets $100, Hero raises to $250, Donkey All in for $337. Hero Calls

Shows str8 flush, Donkey shows Q9 for Full house. Donkey comments that hero is such a fish and super donk. Hero Thanks him as he collects his money.


That happened yesterday. But yes. Raise it like you stole it. Timid people only lose money once you get higher lvls in HU cash or tourney ($3/$6 for Cash and above $88 for Heads up tourneys). If you are timid, stay below those levels, you will be WAY more profitable.

Now being aggressive doesn't mean "move all in every pot" It means pick your places where you think a Raise is +EV. Don't go overboard with it (been there done that, sharkscope looks like hell cuz of it) but let your opp know very fast that you are NOT timid and willing to go to war with him/her. They will respect that, and although you might not get alot of your bigger hands paid off the way you want it, you will win the smaller pots.

One line from Super System that has helped me ALOT in HU tourneys is:

"Be aggressive, pick up the small pots, with those you can freeroll the big pots with being behind" Basically I paraphased what Brunson was saying.

If you win 10 $50 pots, you can stick that 250 you won into a $500 pot and see what happens. Even if you lose, your still breaking even.

Lastly, well Head up poker play is fun, it is WAY more challenging than ring play because one simple factor. More hands are opening up with fewer players. If both of you are aggressive, Any Two Cards (ATC) raises and re-raises the pot. If you are NOT comfortable with being raised alot, stay away from Heads up.

Sorry if I ranted alot, I am scattered someday and today is one of them LOL If you got any questions about Heads up play, reply or send me a PM I'd be more than happy to answer what I can.

[frob23]

Originally Posted by gamer4life27 frob23: Well, kinda. 7 2 has the least potential on any flop, but 2 3 suited or not does have some chance at a wheel, or pairing. And if he's raising every single time you limp, then me personally, I would call with some hands I wouldn't normally because he's too aggressive.

While the 7-2 lacks the straight potential, 2-3 lacks the potential to flop a pair that beats a pair of 3s, 4s, 5s, or 6s... in a heads up situation, this is the more important ability of a hand. You will rarely need to make a straight to take down the pot. Often a pair will be good enough and a pair of 7s beats many more pairs than a pair of 3s does.

Against a random hand 2-3 offsuit has 32.303% equity.
Against a random hand 2-7 offsuit has 34.584% equity.

That extra 2.3% equity isn't much... and these are both pretty garbage hands... but the higher card helps the 2-7 more. When I make the cards suited, the 7-2 retains its lead against the 2-3.

When you talk about flop potential, you are also talking about how 8-9 is far easier to play than K-8 even though the K-8 is mathematically a better hand heads up (in this case by about 9%). The K-8 will often make a better hand than the 8-9 but it's much harder to play on most flops.

[gamer4life27]

liladypokerpro: Your welcome. And thanks for clarifying the c-bet.

Wyte22: I appreciate all that. That is one solid oppinion. But lets say that you are playing online and it's a 4 player shootout tournament. The last table out of lets say 1024 people. You don't have a read on your opponent, and you and him both see flops cheaply, but ocasionally raise with junk. Do you play everying, or fold some things in anticipation that he might raise? Thats kinda what I am going for here. I know how to play the man better than the cards, this is just to see if you play everying heads up. And by the looks of it, it's almost even in the polls.

frob23: Yeah, the 7 does dominate the 3 in these positions. And those are the problems I am asking you all. Do you play that 8 9, and go up against an unknown hand, or maybe even be dominated, or fold it to a hand most likely beaten by yours?

And I know that in heads up playing the man is more important that playing the cards, but this is also a lesson for some begginners out there, who are just playing the cards and want to know a good basic strategy for HU play.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by gamer4life27 Wyte22: I appreciate all that. That is one solid oppinion. But lets say that you are playing online and it's a 4 player shootout tournament. The last table out of lets say 1024 people. You don't have a read on your opponent, and you and him both see flops cheaply, but ocasionally raise with junk. Do you play everying, or fold some things in anticipation that he might raise? Thats kinda what I am going for here. I know how to play the man better than the cards, this is just to see if you play everying heads up. And by the looks of it, it's almost even in the polls.

are there 4 at the table or 4 player shoot out and you and him are the last 2 remaining? If there's 4, you can't play everything. If it is just you two, you gotta answer a few questions....Is he showing down the best hands (reset your stats at this point and within 10 hands figure out whether he is showing down solid hands or any two cards)? How aggressive is he? Is he shove happy? Does he C-bet alot? These are all things you HAVE to ask yourself before you can dictate how you need to play him. Against manaics, you need to play super solid, pull your aggression back some. Because they play bingo, you need to push your small edges but you need to make sure your on the positive side of the edge before you push it. Example: If you have Overpair .v. his A-10. Your on the positive side of that edge. Something like (72% .v. 38% for him). it isn't clear cut, and he has outs but you need a bigger edge against manaics. Expect to FOLD ALOT. You need solid hands. If you ever feel your getting played HU, and you have Ax or KQ......shove. This will usually throw them off their game for a few hands because they will realize that you are a very dangerous opp.

If he's solid as hell, you can run him over six ways to sunday, but change gears ALOT, this will really throw him off his game. I will fold LESS against Solid players PF than I would maniacs. Solid players usually only play group 1/2 hands. Raising them a pot size bet will only produce two results: They will fold and you will win the pot or they will re-raise. VERY rarely will they call unless they are really fishing. Solid players don't like to invest chips into pots unless they have a good % hand. Soo if you get re-raised by a solid player, judge where you are in the hand, DO NOT be afraid to re-raise for info. Timid players go home early

If he is fishing or steaming, play very aggressive but be very selective about your hands and positions. Steamers will shove just like maniacs but the differences is, steamers DO NOT CARE what they shove with. It's always ATC with them. Fish people need to NEVER be played Timidly. The moment you play fishers timid, you just gave him a win in the HU match. Always deny them the odds to make the call profitable. Fish are best beat when the blinds get higher than 50/100. So don't be afraid to small ball them until then. Steamers are the easiest of all people to beat but you need to play solid, good poker push all small edges with steamers. Just beware, sometimes the flop will not work with your hand and they may river their win.

The last group of people in HU is rocks. play like you would solid players, with ALOT of PF raising but if they re-raise you, fold IMMEDIATLY. Rocks typically only play group 1 hands, and you will pick up enough small pots that you can truly freeroll against them in larger pots even if your less than 50% to win. Take your time and be patient (but aggressive) when playing rocks, they will beat themselves if you let them.

That is just about every grouping of opp. you can face, find out where you are, adjust your style to counter theirs and always be aggressive! That's the key to playing HU Also, what cards you play are VERY DIRECTLY related to what opp you face. Much like against a solid player, 86s is VERY raiseable but against a maniac, limp or fold.

One last key (and this is espically true against solid players) change gears alot, and don't be predictable about when you change gears, do it randomly, different gears different times. If you are just overblown aggression all the time, people will catch on very fast because there is no way in the world you can get that many hands that are raiseable in a row!

[gamer4life27]

Someone give this man an award, two solid oppinions in one thread. Lol. But seriously, I know where your comming from as a poker player saying it's more important to play off of your oponents style of play, or use that to your advantage. But this thread is to see if all that aside, your a new player, and you got to heads up, do you play everything heads up? Just simply, do you take advantage of the 3:1 pot odds your getting on the button, or fold some hands?

[gamer4life27]

No one else has anything to say about HU play?

[frob23]

Originally Posted by gamer4life27 No one else has anything to say about HU play?

Heads up, against certain people, I am willing to take a flop with any two cards. Against other people, I won't. The tighter and more passive an opponent is, the more flops I will take and the lighter I will take them. Most of the time, I will be silently encouraging the passive play by not raising pre-flop often. I keep the pots small and manageable... content that I can steal them later in the hand and that my opponent isn't likely to make a play without a strong hand.

On the other hand, against a loose and aggressive opponent (my step-brother comes to mind), I am going to be playing fewer hands (but still about 2/3rds of those dealt to me). But when I play these hands, the pots are going to be large. I will be raising and often three-betting pre-flop with a large number of hands. And there's going to be very few flops that I will fold on. I will bet, float, or raise almost 95% of the flops. It's going to be expensive, fast, and ugly when I end up heads up against this sort of player. But they will destroy you otherwise. You compensate for the larger pots by only playing them with hands that figure to be slightly ahead of what they're playing.

Against my step-brother, for example, I will raise something as weak as J-8 offsuit pre-flop and intend to bet or call a bet on almost any flop. Should I hit the flop, and things get heavy, I am likely to get it all-in with as weak as 2nd pair as long as there's no Ace on the board. This, of course, depends on stack sizes but very rarely are they deep enough against these players.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by gamer4life27 Someone give this man an award, two solid oppinions in one thread. Lol. But seriously, I know where your comming from as a poker player saying it's more important to play off of your oponents style of play, or use that to your advantage. But this thread is to see if all that aside, your a new player, and you got to heads up, do you play everything heads up? Just simply, do you take advantage of the 3:1 pot odds your getting on the button, or fold some hands?

Again, who are you facing? You gonna get into a fold-a-thon with a rock? or a raising war with a maniac who made it to the final 2? You can't have a clear cut answer about how you are to play heads up until you figure out who your opp is and how they play. If you play solid, and they run you over because you didn't adjust to them, well you have no one to blame but yourself.

If your new, and you get to the final 2 of a tourney, just play your game until you get more experience to idenify more types of people and be able to do it quickly. Ya, you might not win alot of tourneys playing the same style over and over, but until you learn how to counter other people's styles, you don't need to change what your doing!

[iceveins0901]

you still never play every hand, the situation very rarely demands that you raise with the worst hands in the game. So no, if you are new to poker, heads up, do not play every hand.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by iceveins0901 you still never play every hand, the situation very rarely demands that you raise with the worst hands in the game. So no, if you are new to poker, heads up, do not play every hand.

Against a true rock, i'd play every single hand because I know he wouldn't change his style, i'd raise every hand, because I know, I will come out ahead in the long run of things. But if your new to poker, and make it heads up, amen, DO NOT play every hand, be selective but don't like your opp. run over you. That's a major mistake. There's a point you gotta stop him from doing that and defend your chips. Just make sure you have a VERY solid hand (Group 1/2 depending on his aggression) when you do it.

[gamer4life27]

I personally think every hand is worth playing heads up. HU is all about aggression, and since your last to act when calling pre flop, you can bluff 90% of the time on the flop. And some of the time, you will hit the flop.

[gamer4life27]

Seems a little more than 1/3 of the people say you should play everything heads up. Come on peeps, ya know you want to argue with me.