Have you ever cheated?

[KayJay333]

Hey guys, I was just curious if anyone has ever cheated before in any form of poker. It could be anything from rigging the deck, to working together. Be honest!

I'll go first, I have thought about it before online and in live games but never gone through with it. I had someone online ask me if I wanted to sit at a table with them and share what cards each had, but I just didn't want to do it.

[irishpkr]

I voted 'considered, but never will' because of this: I'm quite fascinated by deck stacking/rigging/whatever you want to call it. I'd like to be able to learn it just to have as a trick, but I could never use it in a game for money against my friends. Ofcourse its useless online/in casinos, but it would be a nice party trick

[Fictive]

Umm, well, sort of. Technically it wasn't cheating per se, but here is what happened:

Several months ago I ended up in a tournament sitting in the same table with my friend, and he had position on me. He had told me before, that if pre-flop he bets/raises he will have a AQ, AK, or a pocket pair. Now, this was info that other players didn't have from the start, but at the same time, I knew it already because I know his style and he is extremely tight and hyper aggressive. Didn't matter though, I can't remember that we played more than one or two hands at the same time.

[Vito_Nuccio]

Nope, never cheated, hopefully never will. Why do it, I enjoy all games, even ones not played for money. I enjoy playing the games and winning, but fairly. I seem to do pretty well without it. Cheating is more work than it is worth. It is like telling a lie, you just have to cover too many bases. Be straightforward. Just play by the rules and you can come out on top without any regrets or worries.

Fictive, as for knowing your friends style of play, I would not consider that cheating in the least. Player tendencies and foreknowledge of style of play is good poker memory and networking. Now if you two were on the phone together sharing real time hand info, that would be considered cheating, but not what you have described.

Play On.

[MAYNARDTOOL]

No, I would never cheat and it wouldn't improve your game at all.....

[liladypokerpro]

No, cheating is definitely not in my vocabulary when it comes to anything in life. By cheating at something you are not only cheating yourself but others. Kind of reminds me of shoplifting in a sense.....that is a form of cheating too, in a way.....when people shoplift, they are cheating the whole country out of low prices because shrink = inflation, so theft = higher prices. Cheating in games to me just takes the fun and skill out of it. Not cool IMO.

[kennyskywalker]

I've never cheated online or in a casino even though I've been approached by friends with the idea(by the way they never went through with it either but considered it). I did cheat one time in my life in a cash home game. This one guy was new to our game but we had known him for years and was playing games like high spade in the hole gets half the pot every time he dealt and I watched him for a couple hours stacking the deck very simply by picking up the cards from the previous deal and putting the ace of spades as the 5th card in the deck and not actually shuffling so the top 5 cards would stay the same(5 handed game). So his first card would always be the Ace of spades insuring him of half the pot. So after a couple hours he went to the bathroom and I filled in the other 3 guys what he was doing(they were all drunk and lousy cardplayers so they didn't catch on). They said, "should we kick his ass and take all his money?" I said "No I can out cheat him if you want and take his money that way and he'll never know. So every time he dealt we all folded quickly and I began stacking the deck and showed the others how to the next time he went to the bathroom and ended up taking him for most of his cash. First and last time I ever did it but have caught a bunch of people trying to cheat me over the years.

Ken

[KayJay333]

I figured almost everybody would say no, but you have to admit that it has crossed any poker players mind at one point or another in some type of situation. I don't want people to think bad of me because I started this poll because I personally have never cheated, but I admit I have been approached many times by friends or thought about different ways.

Even if you never intend to cheat, you should still know the ways that people can cheat so that you are aware of it and can watch your own back. Not only against other people in a live game, but I've seen dealers at low quality casino's actually cheat players before.

[kennyskywalker]

I was at Foxwoods in Connecticut one time and the dealer was raking a stud 1-5 game and taking an extra few bucks out of the pot and dropping it in his tip cup. After 15 minutes in the box the guards took him away and he had $56 in his tip cup, not bad if it was legit, making $224 an hour dealing the lowest limit in the room plus pay.

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by KayJay333 I figured almost everybody would say no, but you have to admit that it has crossed any poker players mind at one point or another in some type of situation.

I guess I don't fit the bill for the typical poker player, because I have never considered this thought. Ever.

I can't see how anyone would think bad of you for asking a legitimate question. It's actually a good question considering how much of the population really would consider this or even do it.

As for knowing the ways people can cheat, I agree that is a must for anyone to know. You need to really have a keen eye to pinpoint this sort of activity, but with my background in security and private investigation, as well as some time lived in Las Vegas, there's not much that can get past me.

[iceveins0901]

I have looked at a players hole cards while he contemplated calling me, but in both situations I was all in before hand.

[stoffmakers]

It all really depends on what you consider cheating. If you constantly someones cards next to you in a live game and dont tell them to hide them or take some measure to protect them from you, is that cheating? I think everyone has 'cheated' to some degree in poker and practically all aspects of life. Go look at online poker sites rules, some of them are pretty ridiculous and you prob have broken several of them without even realizing.

[frob23]

I checked that yes I have cheated in live poker. Of course, my standards for what constitutes cheating are fairly high. I found it easy to answer yes because, in the past, I have taken advantage of every opportunity I could to see the bottom card on the deck. I would spot it if another player didn't protect it when making the final cut... or when I dealt by just pretending to take a glance at my watch (which was worn with the face on the inside of my arm for this purpose). A trivial bit of information to most players... even if caught, few casual players would be upset even if I admitted to what I was doing. But in some games more than others, and in almost any game if a specific hand situation comes up, knowing that this one card is dead can make a huge difference in how you play the hand.

It's hard to give concrete examples without being too technical. But imagine you're playing 7 card draw and you have an AKxxx flush and your opponent clearly was also aiming for an Ace-high flush. If the bottom card of the deck happened to be the K of his suit... you could raise with impunity. There is no way he's got you beat (with the flush). The same thing happens if the K of the suit was visible in someone else's hand or folded... but that information is open to all players. The opponent your playing has no way of knowing that you're sure he can't hold a flush higher than yours.

Or in Hold'em... as a more common example. If you hold 5-5 pre-flop. And you notice the bottom card is a 5. Well, your hand is unplayable. You just don't have the odds (implied or otherwise) to try and hit that one remaining 5 left in the deck. And unless there is outright cheating (dealing from the bottom), you know that the 5 on the bottom of the deck is never going to come.

I have used small stupid stuff like this in the past to gain an edge when playing against inexperienced players. It's a very small percentage cheat most of the time... but it does add up and in some hands can be critical.

Note: The reasoning behind this is one reason I dislike Rabbit-Chasing (dealing cards out after everyone has folded) even though it doesn't change any action. The cards which come might reveal that it was impossible for me to have held the hand I represented.

At this point, I insist on a Scarne shuffle kept down on the table and that a player keep the back of their hand on the felt while dealing, if we are not using a cut card. I follow the same rules for myself to keep the game fair. With a cut-card, I remind players that they shouldn't lift the top portion up at all... but rather bring it directly across and down onto the cut card... so that no one has a chance to peek.



Oh, and one other time. I was playing in a private tournament. And the dealer was not too experienced. During one hand, he accidentally started dealing the flop before anyone acted pre-flop. He was stopped after two cards and replaced them one by one on the deck. When he did that I could see that he put them back in the order K-A so I knew a King would flop and an Ace would be dead. I looked down and saw my hand was K-9 and was fully prepared to bet it. Even though it was a hand I never played UTG like that. But given the situation, I knew it was playable because of that cheating peek I had got. Another player at the table pointed out that the dealer had reversed the order of the cards when he put them back. The dealer corrected this. So now a King was sure to be dead and an Ace would flop. This turned my hand into an easy fold. I folded and life went on. It was just the one hand but that was cheating too.

[MikeyInc]

I would Consider These Calculator programs people Buy. like Texas Calculat'em cheating .. they are called help tools .. but i see it as cheating there is no Help in Gambling.. either you can or you cant. Strongly Say No to CHEATING of ANY SORT .. especially when ti comes to money

[CubsDominate]

I was playing with my friends in a live tournament one time for just $5 and we were talking about how to stack the deck. I said I would try to do it one time without them noticing as a joke and figured out how to deal myself pocket Aces from the bottom of the deck.

Too bad I dealt my friend pocket 10s and then a 10 on the flop and ended up losing all my money haha. It was fun though, you have to admit that even if you would never do it in a legit game it's still interesting to see how to stack the deck.

[Augie33]

I've never cheated before, but it has crossed my mind. I like how kennyskywalker out-cheated the cheater

[KayJay333]

I'm pretty sure nobody would actually admit who voted for it, but I'm interested to know what type of methods people use to cheat in online poker or live poker. I think it'd be interesting. Will you admit it to us? haha

[stoffmakers]

ill admit it, i was the ONLY one who answered that ive cheated in live and online poker. online, ive played in the same tourney as friends and weve told eachother our cards before. or weve played in a 4 man heads up together. ive also created several pokerstar accounts just to play in freerolls, etc. but once again like i mentioned before, it raelly depends what you consider cheating. p.s. i dont do that stuff anymore since i play on FTP.

[liladypokerpro]

I'm curious how it's possible to create multiple "ghost" accounts....I suppose if your computer is set up with Static IP it would be possible....eh, nevermind I just answered my own question LOL

[KayJay333]

I have been approached by friends multiple times about wanting to play at the same table but have never done it. I just don't see how that would be so much of an advantage? especiallly in a 4 person heads up tourney?