Whats a "good" ROI%

[tstrachan22]

I've been sharkscoping myself daily to see what my stats are because
I currently dont have pokertracker and i'd like to tighten up my game if possible. I constanly cash in Sng's as well as half the MTT's regaurdless of stake.

My question is: What is a "good" avg ROI% (return on investment) a winning player should hypothetically hold andcan u still be a winning player if you fall short of that? Because my roll keeps growing but i'm not as high as 35% ROI as that is that number i think i was told u should have awhile back. Mine is more like 15-20 even when I seem to be playing "great".

Any comments would be much appriciated

[frob23]

Originally Posted by tstrachan22 I've been sharkscoping myself daily to see what my stats are because I currently dont have pokertracker and i'd like to tighten up my game if possible. I constanly cash in Sng's as well as half the MTT's regaurdless of stake. My question is: What is a "good" avg ROI% (return on investment) a winning player should hypothetically hold andcan u still be a winning player if you fall short of that? Because my roll keeps growing but i'm not as high as 35% ROI as that is that number i think i was told u should have awhile back. Mine is more like 15-20 even when I seem to be playing "great". Any comments would be much appriciated

The FAQ on sharkscope talks a little about this because it's relative to the levels you're playing. The pre-sets for scope define an ROI of 15%+ as good (shark level) at the lowest level sit and gos, 10%+ at the middle levels, and 5%+ at the highest levels.

Basically, any positive ROI is better than nothing but a 35% ROI is really a super-fantastic (and probably unreasonable) expectation.

[epetel]

35% ROI is extraordinary even on the lowest limits. There is no simple answer to your question. You can have 1% ROI and make 100k a month or you can have 10% ROI and make pennies. Depends on your limit and the amount of tournaments you play. Sharkscope displays avrg ROI so if you only look at that you can even have a negative ROI and be a winning player. My advice is - don't adjust your game based on sharkscope stats but if you really have 35% ROI then you should be the one giving me advice :P

[tstrachan22]

Thanks for the info. it makes TONS of sense now I kinda thought that 35% was unrealistic. Next question: Are there any stats you guys keep close watch on that may help your game? The reason being is I'm getting pokertracker pretty soon and just wanted to understand the numbers to hopefully better my game as I stated above and help me get into the swing of things early to create a smooth transition. I think knowning the numbers and stepping back to analze a descent size sample is my next step to tighten the ropes so any info. you have is much appricated.

[frob23]

In general, I watch my VP$IP/PFR (Voluntarily Put $ In Pot % / Pre-Flop Raise %) when I play. I just watch these in general and try to be aware of how the conditions in the game might be affecting it. I usually try to aim for [15-20]/[10-12]... but since I don't use pokertracker, these are usually estimates for myself. I do keep track of it using the "stats" function of the client software and some logic based on how the table is playing. The raise thing, I just keep an idea for myself for how often I limp.

I also watch my ptBB/100 (Big Bet / 100 hands). This tells me how profitable I have been playing per 100 hands. I use ptBB and not BB (Big Blinds) because I also keep track of limit hands in the same method. Basically, anything positive is good here... negative is bad... +3-5/100 is usually fairly decent at most levels but you can run even higher at the lowest levels. I keep track of this by recording my buy-ins and the number of hands I play (and what I cash out for). Then I have a spreadsheet which keeps everything in line and does the calculations automatically (as well as figures out an average ptBB/100 for all the sessions on the sheet).

I find that these numbers, VP$IP/PFR and BB/100 tell me most of what I want to know about how I have been playing. I occasionally have a person watch my games (he has PT) and he can give me more stats like my AF (aggression factor) that I enjoy but don't use as often.

[Buildmo]

Do you play the stock market?
because ROI will fluctuate just like the market.(especially when you start playing bigger by-in games).

Wouldn't you rather have your ROI grow like the price of gasoline?,
I want to earn 25%

Just keep it out of the negitive.

Just cash in the games you play. (earning your money back is your objective)
There are sites that indicate the percentages of other players and how often they 'cash' in those games they play. To me it makes no difference and shouldn't to you since some people are just dumb lucky.

Play the right cards in the right situations and you don't lose if you fold.yada-yada-yada

GOOD LUCK,

[epetel]

Originally Posted by Buildmo There are sites that indicate the percentages of other players and how often they 'cash' in those games they play. To me it makes no difference and shouldn't to you since some people are just dumb lucky. GOOD LUCK,

I don't think you can explain positive ROI over 2-5K games with luck.

As for what I use - PokerTracker 3. Has some issues but is in general a nice tool.

I used to look people up on sharkscope before/during the game but I think it actually made me play worse (ie too loose vs "fishies" or too tight vs "sharks") so now I don't bother at all. Might check someone out after the game is over but really rare.

[rakmupagain]

Your roi can be potentially higher the more players are in the sng's you are playing. FOr instance, have a 5% roi if all you play is HU matches is good, while 15% would be unnatainable in the long run. lets say someone plays the 45 man sng's their roi might have a range up to 25%.
Thus 6 man and 9 man sng's are gonna change the expectations as well. The roi's stated above are probably in the 9 handed sng range. If you are using sharkscope, you can look at your roi for # of entrants as well, and see what im talking about.

[XDRAGON]

If you play the low stakes 180 player sng's, its not that hard to make a 50% + ROI long term but you still won't make a fortune. For me what games, what stakes and how many tables i play comes down to just one thing - which produces the highest PROFIT PER HOUR. Thats all im interested in.

[nebster]

I use OfficialPokerrankings for my stats. It gives me my ROI plus a lot of other info....my percentage of finishing in the money....a ranking aggainst other poker players....and breaks down where I ususally finish in a tournament. Plus its free!!!! It also is good for a quick check on opponents.

As for ROI...it really depends what you play all the time. If you play mtt...you can't always expect to have a pos one since a large % of the money is reserved for the final table but one decent cash and your ROI is set for a little while. But this is not always a true measure of how good you are playing. For example you are playing great...close to the money and you get bad beated to the rail. You stats show $0 for the tourny even though you played a good tourny and this can happen over a long period of time. Second you make the money but get knocked out early after that...you are still playing good poker but again nada to show for it.

As for sng's, you should always have a pos ROI since you are only playing aggainst 8 others and have plenty of hands to get a read on them.

As for cash games, I keep a daily accounting of my winnings and losings and avg them out each week. This will keep you honest. A few of my friends use handtrackers whick might be a good aide, Im just to cheap...lol.

[Jarlsberg]

ROI isn't necessarily accurate. If you play KO tourneys, for example, any KO bounties you get won't be included in your winnings, and if you play FTP's Doubles tourneys then any bonus winnings you get won't be counted either.

[Wyte22]

Cash games aren't shown in your RoI either! soo you can build BR after BR in cash games and have an RoI that looks like Enron stock on sharkscope.

[liladypokerpro]

Couldn't have said it better myself Wyte