10NHL: AA on a coordinated board

[MikeyEl]

Should I have been betting more on each street?

I was trying to make a c-bet after the flop. But afterwards, I feel like I should have been putting in potsize bets. My river bet makes is the reason I was upset with the way I played tihs hand, then I got to thinking, all of my bets, besides the flop bet (which I was trying to establish a c-bet when i flop a monster type 'habit') should have been more to extract the most value out of the hand.

Thoughts?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

BB ($14.36)
UTG ($3.22)
UTG+1 ($15.11)
MP1 ($9.25)
MP2 ($10)
MP3 ($2.50)
Hero (CO) ($11.71)
Button ($9.70)
villain (SB) ($11.81)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A
5 folds, Hero bets $0.35, 1 fold, villain calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.80) Q, A, 4 (2 players)
villain checks, Hero bets $0.40, villain calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.60) 3 (2 players)
villain checks, Hero bets $1.20, villain calls $1.20

River: ($4) 10 (2 players)
villain checks, Hero bets $2, villain calls $2

Total pot: $8 | Rake: $0.53

[travz21]

I always bet 60%-75% the pot on flop and turn. My river bets can be anywhere from 40%-75%. This is bluffing or betting for value. I woulda bet .5 on flop, but other than that it looks good.

[Brooklynbum]

I'd have bet for higher value on the flop, turn and the river.

You're in position so you can control the pot if a scare card peels off.

Flop: You have to make players who are on the draw pay, especially on the flop. (say .50 - .75)

Turn: Guys who are chasing draws or have hit a little piece of that flop will also call you on the turn. You probably could've bumped it to $1.50 to $2.00 in that spot.

River: Two pair is going to pay you off and you might get a hero call with the villain (provided he hit a piece of that board) thinking you missed your draws on the river.

I think you could've gotten $3 at least on the river but otherwise nice job.

Don't be afraid to bet for value on the river especially in spots where you think the villain has a good enough hand to call (in this spot maybe he has AJ or A10 for example). AQ is going to play this hand also so you should bet the river harder if you put the villain on this range.

The villain is going to fold his missed draws on the river so betting more isn't going to change the fact that the bandit is folding anyway.

I hate it when I see guys bet so little in a decent sized pot and get paid off when they could've gotten more in the middle and really make bank.

Dont fall into the "If I bet it too big this guy will fold so I'll bet small and see if he'll call" mentaility because often you'll see that you would've gotten called if you bet more anyway.

Hope this helps.

[MikeyEl]

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum Turn: Guys who are chasing draws or have hit a little piece of that flop will also call you on the turn. You probably could've bumped it to $1.50 to $2.00 in that spot.

$1.50 is pretty much a pot size bet (probably was if you include rake) and $2.00 is an overbet. Do you really think this is the best way to maximize value on this hand? Why?

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum River: Two pair is going to pay you off and you might get a hero call with the villain (provided he hit a piece of that board) thinking you missed your draws on the river.

and

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum You're in position so you can control the pot if a scare card peels off.

I looked at the river 10 card as a scare card; which is why I bet 2 dollars. I was trying to balance the fact that I probably had the best hand because he PROBABLY wasn't chasing a straight and to get as much value out of a flat call, with the fact that he could be reraising me here with a lot of hands (any other set, two pair, TPTK) and I wanted to control the size of the pot because I think I had to call almost any reraise. Is this thought process too nitty? And thoughts on calling various reraises? Minraise? $6? $8?

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum Hope this helps.

It did.

[RiverstarsVictim]

Originally Posted by Brooklynbum Turn: Guys who are chasing draws or have hit a little piece of that flop will also call you on the turn. You probably could've bumped it to $1.50 to $2.00 in that spot.

Against 2 or more villains I'd agree with you but in a HU situation a pot sized bet/overbet is gonna scare villain off assuming he isn't a calling station (which we have no reason to believe he is). If he's drawing we want to put out a bet that is mathematically not giving him correct odds but not too big as to scare him off. IMO, as played the turn bet is perfect.

I do agree however the flop bet was a wee bit small which does affect betting on later streets but I dont think we should be worrying too much here. Well played for the mostpart.

[travz21]

If you play your value hands differently than your bluffing hands, you'll get destroyed if anybody notices. That's why betting pot or overbetting is rarely good, imo, because you'll have to start bluffing like that too in order to get paid off on your value hands. Bluffing 60%-75% of the pot is just as effective as betting pot or overbetting, and valuetowning people for 60%-75% of the pot is still going to get ~75% of your stack in by the river if it's played straightforward. If there's anything 3betting pf or post flop, it's a piece of cake to get your stack in without betting more than 75% of the pot. If you can't disguise your hands, you won't get paid off, and you won't be able to bluff.

[MikeyEl]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how you'd react to a check-raise on the river? I think I would have to call any reraise here.

[RiverstarsVictim]

Originally Posted by MikeyEl Does anyone have any thoughts on how you'd react to a check-raise on the river? I think I would have to call any reraise here.

I'm either snap calling or getting the rest of it in. If he has called me down and caught his 4 outer sobeit.

[travz21]

Any suitable check/raise is going to leave you with 1 or 2 bucks left. I'd 100% of the time ship the rest of it in. He's pity-calling with basically any paired bluff and he doesn't have KJ very often unless he's really, really loose. I guess 52 also beats you, but I don't even want to go there.

[Wyte22]

Bet .60 on flop

Pot it on turn (the .40 cents isn't going to matter much, he has shown interest in the hand and at these stakes, will play it to the end.

and bet $3 on river, your getting called on all str8s by a weak ace or two pair.

Add $1.60 (16BBs) to your profit line

[MikeyEl]

Thanks guys. He showed up with a set of 4s. I was 100% shocked that all our money didn't end up in the middle.

I've started to implement the 75% c-bet. I'm having mixed feelings about it. Of course, it's only been 2k hands, which involved a lot of crazy hands. 5 set over sets (2 for the hero, 3 for the villains :-/) and the hand I posted in the bad beats post. I ended up in the positive, running 1.50 BB/100.

[Brooklynbum]

Originally Posted by RiverstarsVictim Against 2 or more villains I'd agree with you but in a HU situation a pot sized bet/overbet is gonna scare villain off assuming he isn't a calling station (which we have no reason to believe he is). If he's drawing we want to put out a bet that is mathematically not giving him correct odds but not too big as to scare him off. IMO, as played the turn bet is perfect. I do agree however the flop bet was a wee bit small which does affect betting on later streets but I dont think we should be worrying too much here. Well played for the mostpart.

That is exactly why the OP could've gotten more on the turn and river.

For example, if he bets $2 on the turn and the villain calls, then you know that he must have at least an Ace, or two pair perhaps (his range is narrowed down to a few hands and if he's drawing to a flush on the turn even ).

Once you know that, you can value bet the river hard because there is no way the villain is going to put you on set of Aces.

All in all, there was nothing wrong with the way you played the hand. Safe is better than sorry most times but I think in this case you could've gotten more from the villain, especially on the river.

[travz21]

No. The villian is a complete fish is the only reason why all the money didn't get in.

"Once you know that, you can value bet the river hard because there is no way the villain is going to put you on set of Aces."

I'm putting people on a set in this hand if they're betting their load every street. And if he didn't put hero on a set, why is villian not raising anywhere in the hand? Hand is played fine except for what was stated by me earlier.