Ace King suited beat by 7 4, was it a donk out?

[Goooool]

Situation:

4 players, 2 cent/4 cent table.

Big Blind has Ace King s, button has 7 4.

Player acting first raises to 15, everyone calls until the big blind. Big blind raises to 40 cents.

First person folds, button (7-4) calls, small blind folds.

Flop is Queen, 7 , 4 .

The 7 4 went on to win. But my question is, did he have the right odds to call the raise of 40 cents preflop?

[irishpkr]

He isnt getting the odds to call the 15c, nor the 40c bet, but it was a terrible reraise. I mean like vomit-inducing - you didn't specify if it was FR or 6max - so a REAL reraise here is to ~$1 if 6max, more if FR and EVERYONE has called, make it $1.50 there, but its hard to imagine a whole full ring table calling an UTG raise. If you get called in more than 1 spot, shove the flop

[Vito_Nuccio]

Of course the player had terrible pot odds to call either bet.

The blinds are 2 and 4 cents, normal play for this level. Too many fish and donks here, move up a few levels. There are less of them higher up the tree, but still enough to make some money while exposing yourself less to situations like this.

Later,

[d.price]

You're playing 2/4 cent blinds. Only a handful of people play those stakes seriously. Move up to $100.00 max or more, and you will see a difference.

[frob23]

Originally Posted by Goooool But my question is, did he have the right odds to call the raise of 40 cents preflop?

There is no way to answer this without knowing at least the stack sizes of yourself and this player and how many people were dealt in and called that first raise. It would also help to know your image and his image. He very well might have put you on a strong hand but was trying for implied odds. It's a terrible play with 74... a really, really terrible play but not unthinkable. When a really tight player makes an overly small reraise (which is what you did raising 2.6 times the original raise with so many people calling that first raise) it might invite me to see a cheap flop (and this is a really cheap flop compared to the pot odds, especially if the stacks are deep) and hope to get lucky and that you do have a big enough hand to pay me off.

As it is, he called the 25 cents more (for what is probably at least an 85c pot... so getting at least 3.4-1 plus implied odds) and happened to get a dream flop. I am sure he was hoping you had AQ, KK, or AA and were willing to go broke there. I also hope you didn't... but his play wasn't hopeless.

Full 6-max everyone calls original raise: $1.15-$0.25 (pot odds 4.6-1)
Full ring 9 players all call original raise: $1.60-$0.25 (pot odds 6.4-1)

With 100xBB stacks ($3.60 after preflop action) he could be looking at more with the perfect flop. . . with even deeper stacks, the implied odds raise respectively. And the pot has become large enough, from pre-flop action, that he can reasonably expect you to stack off up to about 200BB ($8.00) if everything goes well... and probably at least 50BB on the low-end ($2.00 more).

[liladypokerpro]

This is what happens when you play for cents rather than dollars. There are lots of micro limits players who will play any two cards with nearly any bet ahead of them just to see a flop. I wish I could say I was surprised, and I wish I could say he had the odds, but of course we all know there is no way (mathematically) that he should have made that call under normal circumstances. Granted, at a higher limit, stack sizes and all would matter, but when the most you are at risk to lose at a 2c/4c table is $4.00, I doubt you'll find anyone folding much of anything, unfortunately.

[iceveins0901]

Originally Posted by frob23 As it is, he called the 25 cents more (for what is probably at least an 85c pot... so getting at least 3.4-1 plus implied odds) and happened to get a dream flop. I am sure he was hoping you had AQ, KK, or AA and were willing to go broke there. I also hope you didn't... but his play wasn't hopeless.

this is the only part I dont really agree with, anyone calling 74o, even in position, at that low of stakes, probably isnt thinking about what you have

[frob23]

Originally Posted by iceveins0901 this is the only part I dont really agree with, anyone calling 74o, even in position, at that low of stakes, probably isnt thinking about what you have

Well, we knew that when he called pre-flop in a multi-way pot with a hand that was very, very unlikely to be able to hold up against several players. I don't think he called because he put the OP on a big hand... I think he called because he didn't want to fold. Can such a call be justified? Barely.... very barely... but only because the reraise was so weak and the pot was so large... plus implied odds and the idea that the hand range had been narrowed down for the OP (who was also out of position). Frankly, the last two (three) things probably never crossed the mind of the guy with 7-4.

The question was "did he have the right odds" and I think the answer is "possibly with implied odds and perfect play." Did he make a good play? Almost certainly not. Perhaps his mistook himself for Gus Hanson or Daniel Negreanu.

As played... I am almost willing to bet he got paid off for the donk call though.

[emoneypitt]

Originally Posted by Vito_Nuccio Of course the player had terrible pot odds to call either bet. The blinds are 2 and 4 cents, normal play for this level. Too many fish and donks here, move up a few levels. There are less of them higher up the tree, but still enough to make some money while exposing yourself less to situations like this. Later,

This is what happens when you play for cents rather than dollars. There are lots of micro limits players who will play any two cards with nearly any bet ahead of them just to see a flop. I wish I could say I was surprised, and I wish I could say he had the odds, but of course we all know there is no way (mathematically) that he should have made that call under normal circumstances. Granted, at a higher limit, stack sizes and all would matter, but when the most you are at risk to lose at a 2c/4c table is $4.00, I doubt you'll find anyone folding much of anything, unfortunately.

What they said

[Wyte22]

it was 2cent/4cent table, it was a crap shoot from the moment you sat down. No offense, it is impossible to anaylze hands hands at that level because everyone is just soo pissin aggressive, ATC ALL IN!

[MikeyInc]

see here's the key .. 2/4c tables are full of donk's !!! try stepping to 1/2 dollar tables and this will all become a thing of the past! ya see my point? 2/4c tables have a lot of rookies that are scared to bet... hints the donk moves.. its not intentional .. but it happens.. WHY ? You may ask. Cause they don't know any better

[liladypokerpro]

Hey Mikey, I totally agree that 98% of the time, you'll find a lot of loose-don't-give-a-damn play on the 2c/4c tables, but I have to tell you that (at least on Nordica) I have run into a handful of really tight 2c/4c tables...perhaps because they were down to their last little bit of their bankroll and didn't want to lose it all LOL Who knows, but it can happen, it's just rare...

Definitely if you are just playing to have fun, and losing $4.00 isn't gonna kill you, then by all means have fun at 2c/4c tables, but if you are playing to make any sort of profit, and work on your skills, then you've got to move up...at the very least, .50/1.00, but just remember to stay within your means.

[iceveins0901]

Also if you try to go from .02/.04 tables up to 1/2 tables you are going to get raped and run over, lose your roll and be labeled as "the" donkey on many peoples notes. Not because they know who you are, but they will see how you play, and the two limits have two TOTALLY different playing styles.

[123bird]

Originally Posted by Goooool Situation: 4 players, 2 cent/4 cent table. Big Blind has Ace King s, button has 7 4. Player acting first raises to 15, everyone calls until the big blind. Big blind raises to 40 cents. First person folds, button (7-4) calls, small blind folds. Flop is Queen, 7 , 4 . The 7 4 went on to win. But my question is, did he have the right odds to call the raise of 40 cents preflop?

In my humble opinion the call with 7-4 is/was a F**ked up donk call,but you just got to expect morons to call with that crap.

One of my friends will always(99%of the time) call with 6-4 no matter how big/small the raise is or whatever the situation of the game.(he's excuse they are his lucky cards & he keep's winning with them,he reckons 75 to 80 % of the time he wins with 6-4(i don't/can't believe that)