HU QQ hand

[epetel]

Would like to hear what you guys think about that hand. Not trying to brag about the way I played or anything at all. After it was over I had a conversation with my opponent and he was really mad/surprised i made that call.

Full Tilt Poker Game #7393069344: $55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go (56220755), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:08:40 ET - 2008/07/27
Seat 1: epetel (1,455)
Seat 2: valueBet1 (1,545)
valueBet1 posts the small blind of 15
epetel posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to epetel [Qc Qh]
valueBet1 raises to 90
epetel raises to 270
valueBet1 calls 180
*** FLOP *** [2h Kc Ac]

epetel bets 270
valueBet1 calls 270
*** TURN *** [2h Kc Ac] [8h]
epetel checks
valueBet1 bets 1,005, and is all in
epetel calls 915, and is all in
valueBet1 shows [7s 7h]
epetel shows [Qc Qh]
Uncalled bet of 90 returned to valueBet1
*** RIVER *** [2h Kc Ac 8h] [Ad]
valueBet1 shows two pair, Aces and Sevens
epetel shows two pair, Aces and Queens
epetel wins the pot (2,910) with two pair, Aces and Queens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,910 | Rake 0
Board: [2h Kc Ac 8h Ad]
Seat 1: epetel (big blind) showed [Qc Qh] and won (2,910) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 2: valueBet1 (small blind) showed [7s 7h] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens


What did I think and why did I call - After getting flat called on the flop I got really concerned so I checked the turn knowing he can just push me off the hand but I thought better cut my losses, 915 chips are still plenty to turn things around. The shove from my opponent made me think though. I was pretty sure he didnt have a Kx, dont think he'd call a reraise with Kx and if he had KK i'm pretty sure he would have shoved preflop (not the 1st time I play him). So this leaves the AK-AJ and a smaller pair. If he was concerned about the clubs on the board why didn't he reraise all-in on the flop? He wanted to make sure I won't call and he even said he put me on QQ but then in my eyes he did a mistake with that bet. I would never call 300-600 but the all-in was really weird so I did.

Do you see this as a donk call?

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by epetel Do you see this as a donk call?

Nope, just sounds like you knew your opponent and followed your gut instincts...sometimes you have to push general knowledge to the side and listen to that little poker voice...nice hand.

[irishpkr]

I know this is heads up and all, but I can't see me stacking off on that board. Mind you I never play HU so I'm not into this sort of stuff. The only problem I have with calling here is that imo he plays Ax exactly this way. Btw I don't see why this allin is so weird, it could be to protect against you having two clubs (very unlikely I know), and hey, its less than a pot sized bet left, though a small, committing bet on the turn would look scarier to me.

Oh, he doesnt raise the flop allin because what worse hand is going to call him if he has AJ say? Basically turning his hand into a bluff

[Wyte22]

great call Since he all-in on the Flop, I Would have Called to. All in into a under 800 chip pot HU = Board Scared him, soo 55 thru JJ or possible he could have been holding QQ. Now if he had bet 1/2 the pot, Instant fold He is looking for value! Great job on the call!!

He could have had a K to, but he would still look for value there. at the $55 level, they still play pretty straightforward with a few moves but they always bet for value their second pair and top pairs.

[irishpkr]

Originally Posted by Wyte22 great call Since he all-in on the Flop, I Would have Called to. All in into a under 800 chip pot HU = Board Scared him, soo 55 thru JJ or possible he could have been holding QQ. Now if he had bet 1/2 the pot, Instant fold He is looking for value! Great job on the call!! He could have had a K to, but he would still look for value there. at the $55 level, they still play pretty straightforward with a few moves but they always bet for value their second pair and top pairs.

This is bordering on results orientated thinking. I mean you look like a fool when he shows you Ax/Kx/set/whatever

The pot on the turn is about 1100, so his bet is perfectly standard, he's betting 915 into 1100. I'm not sure he's bluffing the 30% of the time we need here to make this +EV imo

[epetel]

Well I play 20-40 of those per day so there is plenty of times I do look like a fool but thats HU. You do have to take a stand way more often.

[liladypokerpro]

Sorry but in HU I can't see how this would look foolish...let me explain my thinking...
In HU, you have to broaden your range of playing hands, therefore, your style must also vary in order to adapt to this change...this goes for the opponent as well.

Depending on the opponent, bluffing can be a huge play of choice. If you pick up a "6th sense" about an opponent you've played with previously, then by all means you should listen to that gut feeling. Although the opponent might normally be a "tight" player, in most cases (not all) styles change when it comes down to HU play. I say most cases because not everyone is capable of adapting.

If your opponent gives you grief about your call, simply say "I thought you missed the board, and I was right." That should shut him up, or at least make him think. It's hard to argue that point when factually, he did. Reminding myself in these cases that most flops miss most hands also helps in making key decisions. Poker is mental warfare...most especially HU...in this case your opponent completely missed the flop, and you sensed it...so again, I say to epetel, nice hand.

Read my signature and understand why listening to your gut was the right move, and why your call was not a bad one. Opponent attempted to semi-bluff for all his chips and lost...therefore his "ineptitude" or at least in this case a misjudgment, lost him the game. You could have just as easily held an Ace or a King. He was only mad because his attempt to push you off your hand didn't work. Even the poker pro's literature all agree, that sometimes the rules have to be broken in order to win.

[epetel]

Yep, I agree with you 100%. In HU knowing your opponent is half the battle won. I have hand history and notes on 300+ players I meet in HU on fulltilt and I always review them after I'm done for the day. Meeting the same people over and over again all the time since I play just above the low limits and there aren't that many new faces there.

[Wyte22]

Amen. I also on my HU notes, I keep my W/L on a good number of people (not all of them though) and their tendicies. I hate people who overbet and people who 4-bet all-in instantly when you 3-bet. I make these notes and if I suspect they are bluffing with scare cards and I am correct, I will make those notes to. I try to label people on a number scale (it was in some book I read)

1 being ultra loose ----------- 9 being very tight


then the other side.


1 very passive -------------------- 9 stone cold.




Also to answer irish, there is WAY more bluffing in a HU game than there is in a 6-max or FR game. People play the scare cards almost to a T when they have freakin 83o. MOST of the time (This is very true at the $55 level to), They value bet all their big hands. All-ins are scared moves where they want you OUT of the hand. If I didn't have QQ here, but maybe a JJ or lower, then I may fold but with QQ in that situation, it is insta call. And yes you are gonna look foolish from time to time, but don't we all look foolish at some point when we play poker? Calling all in with AKs and run into AA or Holding QQ and move in and Run into KK. You gotta make a point where you say "ok enough is enough, if you got me beat awesome, but I am standing up to you"

Also, I think most of the betting done in HU play is Slightly -EV over the long run and this is why: Your seeing to flop anywhere between 45-72% of your hands. You might not raise them, it might be a call and check but since it is 2 players, any two cards are Techinically playable! More flops = more money going out in a 5-10 minute time period .....but also a chance for more money to come in during that same time period when comparing against a 6-max where the ideal flop % is 25-32 or 9-max where the Ideal % is 18-25.

[epetel]

Very nice points Wyte.
Another thing I consider when playing HU is the buy-in. This same hand at 110$ or 220$ and vs a finnish/swedish player is an insatnt fold, they are deceptive enough to make me believe they want me out of the hand. I find americans/canadians play more straight forward up to 55$ but then again thats not something I'm counting on, just a pointer to help me make my decisions.
I just love HU hold-ed, its the only type of hold-em I play now (apart from the limit round in HORSE). Other then that I enjoy full rung stud eight at the low limits (1-2$).

[phaul]

Why do you bet the flop?

[epetel]

Originally Posted by phaul Why do you bet the flop?

I thought thats obvious - to see where I stand. If I check the flop he'll bet and then what? If I call I'll know nothing about his hand and I can't really raise here if he bets. I'm only checking if i'm holding AA or KK but even then only the biggest idiot will see the trap. Depends on my image and/or who I am playing really, if I feel that betting K's or A's will disguise them more I'll do it and vise versa.

[saruzzu82]

Interesting hand
villain play is very tricky... i suppose this flop hits a 3bet range so for villain it is a easy fold , he turned his hand in a bluff by floating flop and shoving turn to force u fold Kx and 88-QQ;

your read is "he doesn'have Ax because he did'nt shove flop and Ax should shove to protect his hand from the Flush draws", I disagree: U don't have FD often because a 3bet range is polarized on Ax and pairs so he shouldn't worry so much about FD,
so imo this is a good spot for Ax to only call flop.

U exclude Kx for the Preflop action but I think this is uncorrect because KQ and KJ call a 3 bet if oppo doesn't 3bets only monsters; however Kx is unlikley because checks turn behind.

So I think it is a fold.
I am curious how looks villain sharkscope?

[saruzzu82]

oopps i found villain sharkscope he is -157 eu, not a fish everyway... i expected something worse

[epetel]

I agree, the flop smelled like Ax or Kx with that call but the shove on the turn excluded Kx at least in my head. If he did a 1/2 bet (yes its more or less the same cause you are commited after that) I'm most likely folding, can't just call and no point shoving at this stage, I can't push him out.
His sharkscope is fine, 2% ROI over 400 games and lost a small amount but my sharkscope doesnt look much better either

[phaul]

Haven't been on here for a while. Your response makes no sense. You say you bet the flop to see where you stand....OK...... Then surely you shut down when he calls???

I check my entire range here, allow him to bluff. Prob check/call one street, then muck. Betting the flop should force out all that you beat and lose more to that which beats you, which is kinda crap. Betting to see where you stand/for info is terrible. Always.

However, he should insta-muck the flop, but turns out he's a moron, so nh. If you really think about this, it's a good call - you've shown a lot of weakness so he wouldn't shove for value here, it's only really ever a bluff.

[rakmupagain]

If you really want good advice, never post hand result. rule #1. Try posting this again without result and see what ur responses are.