A *REALLY* tough spot

[Jonathank]

yeah right. and next you're gonna tell me you laid down quads on the river to higher quads. i suppose you would fold the ass end of a strait flush if someone moved in on you too. give me a break.

[gamer4life27]

Originally Posted by powrdragn And as it turns out, he showed a QsTs.

I'm sorry, but I can not put a tight player on that hand. Even though it was the right lay down, and given all the before hand playing, I would have put him on Qs 10s. If he is playing those hands, then he really isn't a tight player. He is a semi-tight player, or not very loose player. Hands like Q 10 have really scary options on the flop.

I say this, because someone could EASILY beat you. Such as (group 1) A Q, K Q, Q J, A 10, K 10, (group 2) AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 10 10. If they have any of the hands of from group 1, then you have one live card that you need to catch. If they have a group two hand, you are really behind and NEED to catch cards.

Knowing this, tight players won't usually play these king of hands just for that reason. Even if they were suited, and had position, you always run the risk of running into a bigger hand, bigger kicker, or being out flopped. You have to have the right flop with Q 10 (suited or not) in order to feel comfortable with your hand. If you paired just one of your cards, you are always thinking to yourself if you are out kicked. And most of the time, you are.

But like I said before, since you said he was a tight player, I would have put him on A 10, AA, KK, or 44. And given that last action by him (looking you in the eye before the all-in), I would have called him. If he had me beat, show him how far behind he was on the flop, and make him re-decide if his actions were right.

Now, players who are not so tight, or not so loose (just normal players) would play these hands in position. He was in the CO, and wanted to see if the flop connected with his hand.

Him calling on the flop and turn was a bad part by him. He did have top pair, but with a not so good kicker. Your bet should have told him he was behind. And when you bet again on the turn, he had to call because he hit trips. Again, he was scared of behind out kicked (why tight players don't play this hand). But it was just a lucky river card for him to suck out on you.

So basically, it was a mix of him making a gutsy call, being perceived as a tight player, and calling all the way down till the river to get lucky that won him the pot. And in that hand alone, you lost all your profits and was down to your starting stack with huge stacks around you. And, you just gave a tight player a LOAD of chips, which is VERY dangerous. I would have bet pot on the turn and/or the flop instead of less than the pot. You want to go all in before the river because you are pot committed. And, if you went all-in/bet pot sooner than the river, he might have laid down the hand and you would have won the pot right there.

[Jonathank]

dude, get real. this was simply a score board decision. you bought in for 400 and folding the nuts enabled you to walk away even. it's not any more complicated than that.

[powrdragn]

gamer4life27, I think you have the situation about right. If I had moved in on the turn, he likely would hae folded and I could have taken it down there.

I think at the time, I slowed up a bit and was hoping he would call or come over the top. He did call, but his hesitation said he either had something like QT, JT or he had a big overpair AA,KK,QQ and was worried he'd goten run down.

But I have to agree. The biggest mistake I made in the hand was not forcing the issue on the turn.

And to Jonathank, I'm not bragging about a big laydown here in any way. If anything I'm disappointed. I messed of the hand. I lost money bt getting rivered after betting every street. And I had to make a fundamentaly incorrect play to keep from going broke in the hand.

I'm glad I didn't go broke. But I'm definitely not happy about the hand at all. As for leaving even, well, I wasn't honestly worried about that. I play enough at this location that I wasn't worry about my immediate gain/loss. I'm up pretty significantly at this location, so losing my chips wouldn't really have mattered to me. Don't get me wrong. I like to win as much as the next guy, but it wouldn't have been that distressing.

I think you're missing the point of this thread entirely. I'm not here saying, "hey looka t me, I can make amazing laydowns." I'm simply putting this type of situation out here to discuss. I couldn't care less if everyone thinks I'm a clown for the fold. Like I said before, I'm not even happy with myself over the whole damn hand.

I just think the whole thing makes for interesting discussion.

[Vito_Nuccio]

Betting and math aside you did the proper thing when you listened to your gut. You know this player, caught a feeling and followed it. There are times when the stars line up and point to an answer, but if your poker instincts tell you differently, listen to them.

We all know the odds and theory surrounding poker and utilize them. But there is also a voice, an entity that sometimes guides us against the obvious, we do not know why, but when this voice talks to you, listen, there is a reason it is telling you something. It is eventually up to you to properly discern what your poker instincts are trying to tell you. The more I play the more I find this voice to be generally correct.

This hand was played differently than I would have, but that has no bearing, the fact remains, you listened to your instincts and saved money. Next time hopefully your inner poker voice will tell you to push the turn, when it does, listen to it.

You can always adjust your studies and approach to poker, but your instincts will come from within, and grow and improve along with your game.

Thanks for the post, hopefully you find rakeback a better place than the other in which you were not happy.

Later,

[Jonathank]

it's just one hand man. move on with your life. you still have a few million more to play.

[powrdragn]

I'm well aware of that. I play plenty every week

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by Jonathank it's just one hand man. move on with your life. you still have a few million more to play.

Honestly I can't see how this intelligent person could possibly be dwelling on this hand as you make it seem. He's simply posting it for people to discuss, which is the whole point of having a discussion forum...so try to lighten up a bit, ay?

[Jonathank]

so you had a huge hand decided you were beat and made a huge laydown. big deal. it happens every day, and is probably a sign of a winning player. the only reason you say you feel so awful about the decision is beacuse the guy caught runner runner. nausea is the most common sympton runner runner victims suffer from. now that i think about it, i feel sick too.