All In Pre-Flop is not Skill?

[MikeKnows]

Hi, I have been playing online for a number of years and the times I have gone Allin preflop has been good and bad. It really feels good when you go AllIn and you see AAs ,KKs ,QQs,JJs etc. and you have a lowly 10 9 suited and the flop is 10 9 10 and the turn is a 5. You have the best hand unless there is another 5 and someone has a pair of 5s. Now when it is bad and you are not the Big Stack at the table and will still have chips(plenty of chips after a losing hand) and lose and leave the tourney if a MTT or the table if single table SNG. I think from a common sense point of view you should not go Allin ever Preflop unless you have the position on the table and the people after you are really very tight players with small stacks. Because what you are doing is taking your skill at playing poker and throwing it out the window and praying to " Lady Luck" that she gives you a little luck on the flop or turn or that ole dependable "River Lucky". I am not going to do the AllIN again but if I do where can I go to the next meeting for AA (ALL-IN Anonymous) LOL!

[powrdragn]

Sometimes you can't help getting your chips in. If someone else shoves and you have AA, you are going to call. Just hope the odds hold up in your favor.

But yes, you do need some luck when going AI preflop.

[Wyte22]

How can it be skill when all your soldiers are in the middle? a general without soldiers is no general, he just needs to rely on luck (the community cards) to win his battles!

Basically, Skill is painting a picture or telling a story with your chips, moving all in pre-flop you just need luck that your hand holds up, no skill necessary.

[Huskers314]

^
lll
lll
lll
lll
Doesn't care about skill/luck. I care about winning the money. If you can't see the benefit of getting it all in preflop on occasion, you are without a doubt a losing player. Good luck with this new found strategy of yours.....

[PointerJake]

I try and stay away from all in race situations every chance I get. I agree it is the dumbest move in poker. Now, I am talking about only cash games here. Tournies are a different story, sometimes you have to get involved in race situations in tournies. But for cash games I see no need to throw my entire stack into the middle based on a coin flip. Ill wait for a better time to get my money in the middle.

[RiverstarsVictim]

All in pre-flop is a huge part of the game. If you dont want a race when holding AA or KK why are you playing?

There's also times when shoving pre-flop is absolutely the correct move. See Here for a fine example.

[gorden71]

While I agree that all-in preflop is not a skill play, there are times when it is the best move you can make. If you took a real bad beat in a tourney that cripples your stack, sometimes its the only move you have left. I try to avoid it as much as I can, but I cant say I'll never do it again. By committing yourself to never ever doing it, you take away a facet of your game and lose flexibility to adapt to the ever changing game.

[snipermcgees]

Pre-flop play does not require as much skill as post-flop play, which is why pros like to see a lot of flops. They want to maximize their edge against amateurs and this is greatest after the flop, as most amateurs understand the basics of pre-flop play, but are lost during post-flop play because of a lack of experience, knowledge or what have you.

However, being able to get your opponent all-in pre-flop when they are an underdog is a GREAT skill. If you hold AA and you can get an opponent to commit all of their chips pre-flop, then you have played the hand as well as you could expect to. There are different ways of going about this, and a lot of it will depend on your style of play, but it is a big winner in the long run when you can fool your opponents into pushing or calling all-in pre-flop when you hold the superior hand.

I actually wish I was better at getting more value out of my big hands pre-flop. Seems like nobody wants to play for very many chips when I have a big hand and wish we could get the chips all-in.