Full Tilt Cheating???

[liladypokerpro]

Some buddies of mine asked me to post this question and see if there are any other similar thoughts to theirs...

I have 4 buddies that play on Full Tilt very regularly. We were all here playing a house game when one of them brought up an interesting story, to which the others chimed in with similar experiences.

My one buddy Mark that started the conversation, said that he started noticing that every time he would request a withdrawal, he would not win anymore until he lost the amount he withdrew...

Two of the other fellas said they seemed to have the same problem. One of them even said when he started noticing this, he kept track of how much he lost before he started winning again, and to his surprise, it was only pennies shy of the amount he withdrew!

My question is, has anyone else had this problem or noticed this kind of pattern on Full Tilt? The guys are curious, and they have peaked my curiosity on this as well.....

[baltobro3]

This has been discussed before many times. I dont believe it to be true. Thousands of people withdraw, load, and reload money on full tilt everyday. Therefore, I dont think that full tilt would "curse" someone for withdrawing...

I on the other hand no longer play on full tilt, not for real money anyway. I have lost with 4 of a kind twice on full tilt. Also I do not want to keep playing on a site where I continually get stacked by AA or KK everytime i hold QQ or JJ...

Full tilt is alot of fun. It's unfortunate it had to come to this but when I play poker im trying to turn a profit as well as have a good time. I'm doing quite well on the cake network as of now, and have always done well there. So I don't believe the way I play has anything to do with my lack of success on full tilt...

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by baltobro3 This has been discussed before many times. I dont believe it to be true. Thousands of people withdraw, load, and reload money on full tilt everyday. Therefore, I dont think that full tilt would "curse" someone for withdrawing... I on the other hand no longer play on full tilt, not for real money anyway. I have lost with 4 of a kind twice on full tilt. Also I do not want to keep playing on a site where I continually get stacked by AA or KK everytime i hold QQ or JJ... Full tilt is alot of fun. It's unfortunate it had to come to this but when I play poker im trying to turn a profit as well as have a good time. I'm doing quite well on the cake network as of now, and have always done well there. So I don't believe the way I play has anything to do with my lack of success on full tilt...

I hear ya...I mean it does seem ludacris to think that a site with so many players as Full Tilt could possibly keep track of all the withdrawals going out, only to "curse" each player. But I do agree that there are some fishy things that happen on all the sites, not just Full Tilt.

[catch016]

You know what I think it is? Usually, you make a withdrawal after winning, right? So after this winning streak and withdrawal, it's just variance catching up to you and you lose. You never make a withdrawal after losing. It's always after winning. I've made a lot of withdrawals and sometimes I lose the next day, sometimes it's a 3 or 4 days later. No matter what though, that loss always comes. Nobody wins every day. That's just my opinion.

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by catch016 You know what I think it is? Usually, you make a withdrawal after winning, right? So after this winning streak and withdrawal, it's just variance catching up to you and you lose. You never make a withdrawal after losing. It's always after winning. I've made a lot of withdrawals and sometimes I lose the next day, sometimes it's a 3 or 4 days later. No matter what though, that loss always comes. Nobody wins every day. That's just my opinion.

You are so right loss is an inevitable part of gambling of any sort

[yodals]

All I would say is that Full Tilt nearly stopped me playing poker altogether. No word of a lie, I lost with quads twice in six hands hands.

I had pocket rockets pre flop, out popped a third, the other guy went all in so I called. He won with a straight flush on the river after I hit my quads. Then! Check this out, I was playing another game literally minutes later and lost with quad queens in exactly the same way.

Very dodgy. I wouldn't recommend that site to anyone. One bad beat is just the game, but that was incredible. All I know is that it wouldn't matter if I had a Royal, some other guys would have five Aces!

[catch016]

I used to play at Pokerroom before they banned Americans. In two days, I lost quads vs. quads once and lost quads vs. straight flushes twice. So it's not just Full Tilt, it's poker. It was a fluke. I did really like Pokerroom though. Too bad I can't play there anymore. Plus, no rakeback. It's Full Tilt for me.

[rakmupagain]

Although it is good to be wary of scams and such, this whole debate is about superstition. Fulltilt ( or any other reputable, profitable site) has absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose by predetermining outcomes such as suggested.
I withdraw bi-weekly for the same amount every time. After my first withdrawal, i had the worst downswing of my poker career (18 max buy ins). If I werent a firm believer in logic, and mathematical outcomes, I could have concluded that there might be something to this. Guess what, even if played at a high level, of a course of 100,000 hands, you are more than likely to have a 15 buyin downswing. Such is poker, the game is quite brutal. This is where bankroll management comes in, among other self-control methods.
Catch16 makes a good point about the withdrawals, happening at the top of one of your variance waves.
Twice in a span of two days immediately after my first withdrawal, I caught the worst possible beats in holdem after the flop. (Yes, a 1 outer happens quite a bit, there are only 52 cards in the deck). The longest odds being 999 to 1, your opponent needing both of two cards remaining.
First of the two, i was holding aa, pretty nice flop of akk against a maniac who who was probably holding an underpair( called my reraise preflop) he actually pushes on the flop all in to my delight, and shows 88. Yup. lost that one.
The second was even sicker because we were superdeep stacked. My opponent was a very TAG player, and i never give him action without a monster flop for two reasons in this situation, 1 being I never seen him bluff , 2 we both had over 600 in play (at 1/2 NL). I made my usual value raise early position with 66, and was reraised bby this player... I've never seen him do this as a steal or even with AK, he always jsut calls in that spot. Being deep stacked, I'm set mining of course.... flop came 662.. Quads yippee, I actually lead out representing a midpair in the range of 33-jj, knowing he has qq or better and will raise every single time. Sure enough he 4bets me, i go into the tank and call.. K on the turn, i check (praying he has aa or kk rather than qq, the latter he would not give me much more action.) he pushes all in and shows kk, you know the rest...
My point, I'm still not superstitous... ( I did log off quite abruptly soon after that hand, lol, I dont know anyone that could play well at their relative stake after those two days.)

[liladypokerpro]

I have emailed all these responses to Mark so he can forward to the other 3 guys...I'm sure they'll appreciate all the feedback their question has raised. I still welcome any further input on this... it's interesting to see the varied opinions...

[mikeyu21]

full tilt is a blast too bad im already a member and cant get rakeback there

[XXXBIGPROXXX]

yup, it is a normal thing that you can get the absolut hardest bad beats vs 1 outers on the river. Youre a good player if you can relax after such beats fastly and return to your "normal" play. And if you get some bad beats in a row, sh*** happens, 15 mins later you will possibly win with a bad beat vs a dominating hand......

gl

[baltobro3]

I understand bad beats happen, and I know we've all lost with 4 of a kind. I hear plenty of stories...thats why I didnt bother repeating my hands play by play.

I was just stating that I make more profit consistently on one network or site then I do on another....Therefore, why even bother with the network or site that I make less profit on...That's why I do not play on Full Tilt

[DaGreenster]

i dont have this problem whatsoever... its just the swings of the game, you gotta be prepared for this. sometimes i cashout 2k a week for 2 months and then go cold for 5 weeks... its just how it goes.

-Green

[liladypokerpro]

I agree with you balto...I am so thankful that there are so many other poker sites to choose from, because Full Tilt would be on the bottom of my list, along with Absolute. It's a great thing to be able to try out many different sites until you find one or more at which you are comfortable.

[dew12109]

Originally Posted by yodals All I would say is that Full Tilt nearly stopped me playing poker altogether. No word of a lie, I lost with quads twice in six hands hands. I had pocket rockets pre flop, out popped a third, the other guy went all in so I called. He won with a straight flush on the river after I hit my quads. Then! Check this out, I was playing another game literally minutes later and lost with quad queens in exactly the same way. Very dodgy. I wouldn't recommend that site to anyone. One bad beat is just the game, but that was incredible. All I know is that it wouldn't matter if I had a Royal, some other guys would have five Aces!

you do realize that anytime you lose... someone else also won right?

Bad beats happen. It's poker. You will remember your bad beats far easier than anything else.

[bossmanisme]

i withdraw 5000 every couple few weeks. i can guarantee you that i don't have to lose 5K and then make 10K more in order to do so. the doomswitch is complete superstition. anyone whom seriously thinks otherwise is a donkey.

[PointerJake]

It seems to happen to me on all sites. I dont withdraw untill I have a large amount.
Then i switch sites

[petros337]

Originally Posted by liladypokerpro Some buddies of mine asked me to post this question and see if there are any other similar thoughts to theirs... I have 4 buddies that play on Full Tilt very regularly. We were all here playing a house game when one of them brought up an interesting story, to which the others chimed in with similar experiences. My one buddy Mark that started the conversation, said that he started noticing that every time he would request a withdrawal, he would not win anymore until he lost the amount he withdrew... Two of the other fellas said they seemed to have the same problem. One of them even said when he started noticing this, he kept track of how much he lost before he started winning again, and to his surprise, it was only pennies shy of the amount he withdrew! My question is, has anyone else had this problem or noticed this kind of pattern on Full Tilt? The guys are curious, and they have peaked my curiosity on this as well.....

This is of course untrue. People notice things that are not here as we tend to detect patterns in what is random and to make incorrect conclusions. In the short run, something random can persist and appear as if there is an explanation behind this. Furthermore why would Full tilt care if you withdraw or not since you are back there playing. It's the rake you generate that they are after not your bankroll fluctuations. Of course a very bad player that would loose constantly would probably abandon the the site but even a weak player can win in a short period of time and thus think he has actually improved. In poker, it is impossible to make conclusions from your performance during a short period of time(1-2 months, or even more) as you bankroll will tend to fluctuate as chance plays such an important factor in the short run. Howeve,r people often confuse bad luck with the site being rigged against them and a good run of cards with skill.

[liladypokerpro]

Love this post...very detailed and straight to the point. This is a fairly old thread so the guys let this discussion go a long time ago, but it's interesting to see how much their curiosity sparked response.

[pokerqueen]

I have friends who have said the same story when they withdraw they go on a losing run to more or less match the withdrawal they have requested,coincidence maybe but they have stated and they are decent players i may had who do well in live games they say if you withdraw from any site do not invest any more money in that site for at least a month it works for them and they withdraw plenty times from various sites,but they will never stick to the same site after withdrawing so who knows what goes on in computer software which is all it is at the end of the day.