Have You Ever Folded Pocket Kings Pre-Flop? (cash or tournament)

[OnTheRoad]

Pretty basic question directed at the new players starting off...Have you ever folded Kings Pre-Flop. I have to admit, I've only done it once, when I was certain my opponent had aces in a cash game, luckily I was right. However, I've made the call more times than not too. This is usually playing cash, here locally in Vegas. I will know the guy is a rock, and the only way he'd put his hole stack in would be with aces, yet I've paid it off a decent amount of times.

I almost think this can be considered a beginners mistake, falling under playing big hands too big, or making spite calls. I've been playing quite a few years now and I still make spite calls.

[travz21]

Not even once.

[HelloPoker]

Sure many times

[C8H10N4O2]

I've never even folded KK post-flop.

[HelloPoker]

I've never even folded KK post-flop.

Must be a small sample

[pokerbucket]

unfortunately yes

[jimmythegreek]

I saw a guy in the $10k LHE event this summer fold AA on the money bubble pre-flop. He was down to 2bbs and apparently really needed the $. Granted it's LHE and he was guaranteed to be called by the button, sb and bb behind.

[keanosdog]

biggest hand i ever folded pre was QQ.

guy foolishly then shows me KK making me feel quite good about my decision.

[C8H10N4O2]

Must be a small sample

I don't even want to count how many hours of my life I've wasted playing poker.

[HelloPoker]

Me neither

[keanosdog]

I don't even want to count how many hours of my life I've wasted playing poker.

wasted????

[XXXVERDIXXX]

i never folded kk preflop but i might do it some day

[C8H10N4O2]

wasted????

Yeah .

[Igotnutflush]

I don't think I ever have folded KK pre-flop but probably post-flop.

[mikee1962]

at the beginning of a tournament when 5 ,6,7 other idiots go all in it reduces the chance of me coming out on top..time enough for me to go all in later...no rush

[Squawk]

http://www.rakeback.com/poker-forum/...han-Harrington

60k hand sample, one occasion.

[Max Weiss]

Twice. Both times it was a multiway pot, and I 3-bet, and tight players behind me cold 4-bet and the original player went all in. Easy folds there, and both times one player did in fact have AA.

For KK to be right to get in, the other guy has to have QQ in his range. Some people won't but YOU SHOULD ALWAYS err on the side of getting KK. Even if they have AA, you have to remember that in order for you to be losing money in that exchange, they have to fold KK when the situations are reversed. So you're still not really losing money in that spot even when you're sure they have AA. Folding KK is a highly exploitive and rare play that should almost never be done. When there is ANY doubt, go with it. People will show you AQ and JJ and all kinds of junk they have no business having in that spot.

[frob23]

I didn't check tournament hands... but I did find an example of it once in a cash game.

In the last 215.6k hands, I have folded KK pre-flop exactly once. It was nearly two years ago... lol... and I've considered it a few times since I've moved to 6-max but I've never done it there. The one place I have it in my database is the following hand:

Merge - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $2.50
MP+1: $12.15
LP: $4.30
CO: $12.67
BTN: $5.27
SB: $9.81
BB: $2.00
UTG: $18.21
Hero (UTG+1): $14.76

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10, LP posts DB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has K K

fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, MP+1 calls $0.30, fold, CO raises to $1.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $3.30, fold, CO raises to $12.67 and is all-in, fold

CO wins $7.10

The CO in this hand was a 40.9/2.8 (325 hands) with a 3-bet of 1.04%... very passive pre-flop. When he 3-bet, I was seriously sick and considered folding right there but I decided to make sure. I put in a serious enough 4-bet that I knew if he shoved my KK was probably no good. He made me a believer. It might have been an error... although at these limits, I am pretty sure it was a solid fold. I hated putting 33xbb out there and folding but I didn't want to lose another 94xbb when I was sure I was beat.

I did have a thread on here where I talked about a live tournament hand where I held KK and was 100% sure another player had AA (based on the action and his range)... but ended up calling anyway. LOL... I am not good enough to fold it when stacks are as short as they typically are during a tournament. But 130xbb and someone who is this tight pre-flop (when it comes to raises)... it was a fold I did find.

[travz21]

Very passive players can also limp with monsters or just flat 2bets pf, which could be a reason why their 3bet % is low.

There are also passive pf players who slowplay big hands but shove hands like 99 or AJs just because they don't know any better.


Just because stats say they are tight with 3betting doesn't always mean that they have a strong 3bet range.

That said, I'm never folding this hand.

[frob23]

Very passive players can also limp with monsters or just flat 2bets pf, which could be a reason why their 3bet % is low.

There are also passive pf players who slowplay big hands but shove hands like 99 or AJs just because they don't know any better.


Just because stats say they are tight with 3betting doesn't always mean that they have a strong 3bet range.

That said, I'm never folding this hand.

I know that now. But this was two years ago... lol, I've come a long way since then. At the time, I was confident that the KK fold was ok. I still don't feel too bad about it. It was the 5-bet shove that really sold me on it anyway... I had to 4-bet and see for sure. Although he could be spazzing there with 99 too.

I haven't done it since then and I've run my KK into AA many times... but I've run it into worse a whole lot of times too.