It's nice to know that this month won't be any better than the last one.

Thread: It's nice to know that this month won't be any better than the last one.

Tags:
  1. frob23's Avatar

    frob23 said:

    Default It's nice to know that this month won't be any better than the last one.

    Merge - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
    Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

    UTG: $11.93
    Hero (MP): $12.00
    CO: $10.00
    BTN: $10.22
    SB: $8.85
    BB: $9.40

    SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

    Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has A A

    fold, Hero raises to $0.35, fold, BTN raises to $1.20, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.85

    Flop: ($2.55, 2 players) K 3 5
    Hero checks, BTN bets $1.91, Hero raises to $10.80 and is all-in, BTN calls $7.11 and is all-in

    Turn: ($20.59, 2 players) 2

    River: ($20.59, 2 players) J

    Hero shows A A (One Pair, Aces) (PreFlop 94%, Flop 86%, Turn 72%)
    BTN shows A K (Flush, Ace High) (PreFlop 6%, Flop 14%, Turn 28%)
    Hero wins $0.00
    BTN wins $19.57

    ------------
    I can't win with AA... but I should be able to win when I out-flop it at least!

    Merge - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
    Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

    UTG: $10.85
    MP: $9.26
    CO: $7.00
    BTN: $15.37
    Hero (SB): $10.00
    BB: $17.17

    Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

    Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 8 8

    fold, fold, CO raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.90, fold, CO calls $0.70, fold

    Flop: ($2.10, 2 players) 5 8 5
    Hero bets $1.05, CO raises to $2.20, Hero raises to $3.35, CO raises to $6.10 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.75

    Turn: ($14.30, 2 players) A

    River: ($14.30, 2 players) 2

    CO shows A A (Full House, Aces full of Fives) (PreFlop 80%, Flop 9%, Turn 98%)
    Hero shows 8 8 (Full House, Eights full of Fives) (PreFlop 20%, Flop 91%, Turn 2%)
    CO wins $13.59



    Oh well... another day behind me. It's not all bad. I made most of the money back pretty quickly after both these.
    I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call.
  2. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    Think positively. Forget these beats. If everything seems negative to you, literally take 3 days off, or even more. And did you read my pm on 3bet pots a while back?

    I don't like how you played any of these hands preflop. AA, 4bet oop, as you should with pretty much you're entire value and bluff range. Stack his AK/JJ before AK doesn't improve or JJ gets scared. I know I flatted AA oop in another thread, but that just me trying something new.

    And I really don't like squeezing 88 oop. You're basically turning it into a bluff both pre and post if you get called, and playing a big pot oop. Don't play big pots oop with mediocre hands! 3bet a polarized range, {AK,JJ+} (JJ player dependent) balanced with stuff like T6s/95s etc. One exception is if there's a fish in the pot, then you can extend your value range to AQ/TT.
  3. frob23's Avatar

    frob23 said:

    Default

    The AA hand is taking advantage of this player's high 3-bet stat. I didn't include it in the post but he was 3-betting over 12% of his hands over a significant sample and then c-betting after being called 75% of the time. There is a lot more value from my AA by flatting pre and check/shoving the flop because I get the most value from the weak part of his range and only lose value to hands like JJ or QQ if a K flops. If they had a different 3-bet range, that's another matter. Besides, this player and I have had a ton of hands together and this balances those times I steal, he 3-bets, and I call with something weaker to steal his flop c-bet. If I am never flatting AA... he knows I don't have it when I flat a 3-bet and then shove the flop. Not that I worry a ton about balancing here... the primary reason was because I gain more value against the bluffing part of his range than I lose against the value part.

    In the second hand, CO has an ATS of 39% over 800+ hands. When they open for a min-raise with that wide of a range, it isn't always temping to 3-bet with hands like 88 but after another caller, it seems fine to me. Without the caller, I might just call here and see the flop, knowing that I can check/raise most flops and win there. But that's less likely 3-way. Just calling to hit a set against such wide ranges and check/folding when I miss and there are over cards (which will be almost always) seems worse. I'm not likely to make a huge amount when I hit the set and I am going to end up folding a ton of flops because very few are good for me here. I expect to pick this up pre-flop almost always. And when I don't, I can c-bet most flops (heads up) and give up to any action if I don't improve. As it so happens, I am against the top of his range (yes, I fold to his 4-bet pre-flop if he had made one)... and I flop the top of my range. At that point, it was inevitable that the money was going in.


    I will grant, neither of these hands represent my "default" pre-flop play with the hands in question. But given the table and player dynamics, I am fine with them.

    ----------
    I did read your PM... never got around to doing it though. Checking now, for the year, I have a -177ptBB/100 when I call a 3-bet... and a -78ptBB/100 when I just fold to the 3bet. So I fare rather badly... losing almost two buy-ins more than folding every 100 times I call a 3-bet. I have a +161ptBB/100 when I 4-bet... of course, my 4-bets are 90% for value... so that's to be expected. Overall, it's not good... it's a -78ptBB/100.

    As expected, my hands like AK, AQ, and KQs fare horribly... and probably warrant a 4-bet or a fold. ALL my pairs except QQ, JJ, 55, 33, and 22 are profitable though... which is probably more a sample size issue than anything because calling with something like 66 shouldn't be showing a +42ptBB/100 winrate. Makes me wonder if I should be 4-bet folding JJ-QQ... which seems really lame.

    TT actually is doing better over my sample size than KK (+547ptBB/100 compared to 115ptBB/100). But the samples are small (TT:35 hands and KK:19 hands). Should I reevaluate some of the hands I call a 3-bet with? Certainly... even against some of the crazy 3-betters that I face. Probably dropping KQs and QJs (both with a shameful 13 calls each) from my range would probably help a bunch. Same with AQs.

    Still, I'm not going to drop AA from the list of hands that I will call a 3-bet with. It just depends on how the other person is playing.

    The nasty thing is that I have faced a 3-bet over 23% of the time I have opened this year... that's a lot of hands to just start giving up on... although my default is normally to fold... I guess it can't hurt to work on folding even more.
    I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call.
  4. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    I'll address the 88 hand first since it's short. Ok, I didn't see it was a min raise, sorry. In that case, it's close between squeezing and calling. By close, I mean either is fine, esp if you have some read.

    As for aggressive 3bettor hand, if you're against someone that 3bets you alot, just leave. Yeah, pussy out. Who gives a shit? You're playing to maximize winrate (mostly from fish(, not to outplay semi/donk-regs. If you don't want to leave, then tighten up your LP opening range.

    But if you do decide to stay, then develop an aggressive dynamic. By that I mean 4betting a lot and extending your value range, so 4bet and getting in AQ+/TT+ etc for 100x and 4bet/fold a lot more as bluffs. But really, your most EV+ and tilt-free move is to leave the table. Just do it. Nothing tilts me...nothing, except extreme pf aggression. I've learned to A) fight back by randomizing 4bets for bluffs/value and B) just leave. The least variance and most tilt-free strategy is B)/
  5. frob23's Avatar

    frob23 said:

    Default

    Leaving is great if there are tons of tables. Merge might have 8-10 tables running at a time for a limit. If I am playing at 6 of them and the aggressive player (or players since there are more than one) are at 3-4 each, it's hard to just go.

    I don't know what it's like on other sites... but on Merge, I find about 23% of my opens -- across all tables -- get 3-bet... and I generally avoid players that do it a lot, when possible.
    I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call.
  6. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    I 14-16 table and usually don't see more than 2 tables where I'm getting pounded by 3bets. Not enough tables on the site can be a problem
  7. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frob23 View Post
    Should I reevaluate some of the hands I call a 3-bet with?
    Against anyone that has a 3bet<5%, just nit up and don't call or 4bet unless you have AK/JJ+, so don't set mine unless if it's a really small 3bet or vs a fish. And don't call 3bets oop, unless if it's a fish min-3betting.

    If villain has a 3bet of ~6.5% or higher, then you can start to call some hands like KQs, AQs, TT, but that's pretty much it, I don't see how it's profitable to call anything else.
  8. frob23's Avatar

    frob23 said:

    Default

    I generally nit up until about 6% and don't really consider making adjustments until they're over 9%. The 6-9% is a grey area and usually I consider their 3-bet from the blinds as a good indicator when it comes to that. If they have a 7% 3-bet but a 10% from each of the blinds... I respect any 3-bet from outside the blinds -- of course, they usually also have position which provides more incentive. If those numbers are reversed (maybe 2-3 people on the entire site)... I tend to give all their 3-bets more credit. So someone with an overall 3-bet of 8% but a 3-bet from the blinds of 5-6%... all of their 3-bets get me nitted up. Mainly because they're smart enough to know that 3-betting with position is the nuts... which means they probably are sane post-flop in 3-bet pots and I'm probably -EV.

    I was on there today and was going to respond with a table by table list of the 8%+ 3-bet stats (for players with 200+ hands)... but I got distracted and didn't get around to it. Only 1 table had no one, I think 3 had just one person, and one had 2 different players... I was 6-tabling but one table was me and like 3 unknowns... so not enough hands. So yeah, it's a loose aggro pre-flop game at times on Merge... worse weekend nights but there are still plenty of semi-regular players that get absolutely nuts with the 3 bets. There is a LOT of truth about people from northern Europe being aggro as hell.
    I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call.
  9. frob23's Avatar

    frob23 said:

    Default

    Oh, just as an aside... these hands don't get to me too much. I do sometimes sit there and go exclaim, "again?"

    If I am playing 6-10 tables... I usually don't have too much time to focus on the results of a previous hand. But we have a bad beat forum... someone should be using it. LOL
    I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call.
  10. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frob23 View Post
    I was on there today and was going to respond with a table by table list of the 8%+ 3-bet stats (for players with 200+ hands)... but I got distracted and didn't get around to it. Only 1 table had no one, I think 3 had just one person....
    I meant high 3bettors to your immediate left or second seat to your left.
  11. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frob23 View Post
    Oh, just as an aside... these hands don't get to me too much. I do sometimes sit there and go exclaim, "again?"

    If I am playing 6-10 tables... I usually don't have too much time to focus on the results of a previous hand. But we have a bad beat forum... someone should be using it. LOL
    Even if bad beats don't effect you emotionally, you should still use a strict 4 buyin stop loss, no exceptions.
  12. travz21's Avatar

    travz21 said:

    Default

    Stoplosses are for sissies. If you're not willing to lose 100 buyins in a session, you're not a real man.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.
  13. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by travz21 View Post
    Stoplosses are for sissies. If you're not willing to lose 100 buyins in a session, you're not a real man.
    If I'm willing to lose 100 buyins in a session, I'm not a real poker player.