Overbet shoving the river for value

Thread: Overbet shoving the river for value

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  1. frob23's Avatar

    frob23 said:

    Default Overbet shoving the river for value

    So I am playing around last night and was feeling goofy. So I decided to shove the river when I held the nuts... regardless of pot size or effective stack sizes. Well, unless it was the nuts but the only call would split the pot (like a hand where I have broadway but it only takes one card for them to have it too) -- no need to pay extra rake.

    But what could possibly go wrong?

    Here are the two hands I remember. I had one other hand similar to this where I bet 5 times the pot (which was only 20c... not a shove but still a big overbet) and they folded. They probably weren't calling anyway. And a couple hands where I had the second or third nuts and just bet pot and they folded. But overall, it was pretty profitable. I didn't hold the nuts a lot on the river (at least where I wasn't already all-in or had less than a pot sized bet left before getting all in)... so there wasn't a whole lot of opportunity. lol

    Just wish I had a larger sample size. I think it was SO suspicious looking and so out of character that I got calls from these players hoping to snap off a bluff.

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    Merge - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

    BTN: $9.36
    Hero (SB): $13.78
    BB: $12.04
    UTG: $13.77
    MP: $10.15
    CO: $10.00

    Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

    Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 6 7

    UTG raises to $0.26, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.21, BB calls $0.16

    Flop: ($0.78, 3 players) 6 7 8
    Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks

    Turn: ($0.78, 3 players) Q
    Hero bets $0.80, BB calls $0.80, fold

    River: ($2.38, 2 players) 6
    Hero bets $12.54, BB calls $10.98 and is all-in

    Hero shows 6 7 (Full House, Sixes full of Sevens) (PreFlop 35%, Flop 93%, Turn 82%)
    BB shows J Q (Two Pair, Queens and Sixes) (PreFlop 65%, Flop 7%, Turn 18%)
    Hero wins $21.57
    Hero wins $1.56

    OK, this isn't the pure nuts but against this opponent, it was likely the best hand. This player was pretty suspicious of me before this. I guess I had an image where I had zero fold equity against him. LOL... his hand was essentially top pair with a medium kicker. But he calls a shove of over 4.6 times the pot on the river with it.

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    Merge - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

    BTN: $10.00
    Hero (SB): $27.84
    BB: $12.21
    UTG: $16.74
    CO: $3.49

    Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

    Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 5 7

    fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

    Flop: ($0.20, 2 players) J 2 4
    Hero checks, BB checks

    Turn: ($0.20, 2 players) 6
    Hero checks, BB checks

    River: ($0.20, 2 players) 8
    Hero bets $27.74 and is all-in, BB calls $12.11 and is all-in

    Hero shows 5 7 (Straight, Eight High) (PreFlop 50%, Flop 31%, Turn 30%)
    BB shows 2 8 (Two Pair, Eights and Twos) (PreFlop 50%, Flop 69%, Turn 70%)
    Hero wins $0.00
    Hero wins $23.20

    OK, I almost feel a little bad for this one... almost.

    But calling a 60.5xPot shove on the river with two pair... and not even top two pair... is pretty bad. Sure it was super disguised and not at all what I expected (I expected him to have nothing and just fold so my shove was partly just me being goofy). Seriously, I get no respect!

    Edit: Out of 17 hands this month where I have bet 125% pot or larger on the river... I've been called 5 times. I won 4 of them... lost 1 (a 2.6xPot one) where the guy had K-4... which was the pure nuts against my flopped but smaller full house). Not that he's ever folding flopped trips... but it was still an unfortunate river.
    I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call.
  2. frob23's Avatar

    frob23 said:

    Default

    This one was from earlier this month. Only about 1.9 times the pot... but whatever. Still a fun one. This guy went apeshit in chat afterwards. Talking about how rigged online poker was and how it was total BS that I won that hand.

    Merge - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

    BB: $10.38
    Hero (UTG): $24.45
    MP: $11.45
    CO: $12.51
    BTN: $5.00
    SB: $10.20

    SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

    Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Q Q

    Hero raises to $0.35, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.25

    Flop: ($0.75, 2 players) 2 T 8
    BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

    Turn: ($1.75, 2 players) Q
    BB checks, Hero bets $1.31, BB calls $1.31

    River: ($4.37, 2 players) T
    BB checks, Hero bets $20.39, BB calls $8.22 and is all-in

    Hero shows Q Q (Full House, Queens full of Tens) (PreFlop 88%, Flop 82%, Turn 100%)
    BB shows 3 T (Three of a Kind, Tens) (PreFlop 12%, Flop 18%, Turn 0%)
    Hero wins $7.60
    Hero wins $12.17
    I get no respect. . . when I move all-in, people from other tables call.
  3. phaul said:

    Default

    Lead the flop in hand one. UTG is gonna check back a high percentage of his range and there's a lot of draws you want to get value from.
  4. grimReaper's Avatar

    grimReaper said:

    Default

    1 fold pre
    2 raise and cbet
    3 nh
  5. phaul said:

    Default

    Lol yeah, all of the above too.
  6. 98250's Avatar

    98250 said:

    Default

    In the first hand I thought your play with the unsuited connector was loose despite the stack size. You were in the small blind and not guaranteed to close the betting. I think it is better to pitch in that spot as long term I don't think it is profitable and just increases variance for no gain.

    If UTG just has overs then them checking the flop is real but c/raising is fine. The overshove on the river I don't like as if opponent held a premium pair then they certainly bet the flop and so you fold out your opponents weak hands nearly all the time. You were fortunate to get called by Q-J
    Last edited by jspill; 14th November 2012 at 01:31 AM.