Poker Etiquette Part 2

[Roboligraphy]

I'm sitting at a table playing 2/4 NL against an older gentlemen, he's wearing a cowboy hat with reflective shades so its as if I'm looking at myself. I was up 300 then down 150 then back up 250, when all of a sudden I pick up on something.... I watch him pick up his cards and see it again....He's lifting up his cards a bit too high and I notice that his sun glasses are reflecting the cards back at me as if it were a mirror. After about a few hrs I'm up 1500 dollars and we both decide its best to cash out, as I'm leaving the casino he comes up to me and asks "I'll give you $100 dollars if you tell me how you always knew what I had" and with that he hands me a $100 bill to which I reply "I could see the reflection in your sun glasses" in turn he then demands that I cheated him and that he wants his money back; Did I do anything wrong?

TL;DR
You've notice that the person you are playing againsts sunglasses reflect the cards back at you, after you've taken 1500 dollars from him he then pays you 100 to tell him what gave the strength of his hands away. When you tell him you could see the reflection he is furious and demands his money back.


Part1:http://www.rakeback.com/poker-forum/...tiquette-3138/
(I should also make a note that these are hypothetical situations)

[liladypokerpro]

I guess I'm too honest but if it was me I'd tell the guy right away...I don't believe in cheating...takes the sport out of the game completely, not to mention it's "dirty" money being won. (hypothetically)

[frob23]

Personally, anyone who wears sunglasses playing $2/$4 should be charged a tax for it. But that is just me.

When he came to me, I would refuse the $100 and tell him it was just something about the way he looked but I couldn't describe it. And as an aside, I would say that sometimes I could see a flash of his card in his glasses.

It's the obligation of a player to protect their own hand. If I am able to see their cards without making a special effort (like leaning over towards their shoulder) then they have failed to protect their hand and I feel I am not required to let them know. This is different from a card that is flashed while dealing... in which case I am obligated to alert the table and the dealer that I saw it, even if no one else at the table did.

Alright... that's how I feel about it. The true rule is that you need to let them know as soon as you notice it. You need to bring it to the attention of the dealer too. By knowing his cards you have an edge over the rest of the table that they don't have. This gives you an unfair advantage and using it is cheating. The dealer needs to warn the player to protect their hand. I've heard a professional dealer's opinion that the house can toss you out for such actions if they notice you doing it. In reality, this is no different from a card being flashed by dealing. In that case I need to alert the dealer and have the card properly exposed because knowing it gives me an unfair advantage. It's no different in the case where I see the cards after they are dealt. If I am privy to more of the down-cards than another player... I am cheating and putting them in a bad position.

That said, I do have a real life example of this:
I used to play 7-stud with a player who would "shuffle" his down cards on 7th if he was on a flush draw. Not only was this a dead tell on the hand he had (and often it was easy to know if he made it or not)... but he shuffled with the backs to him and the cards off the table. Sitting across from him, I could clearly see his 3 cards when he did this. It was especially helpful to see a one red card flash by with two black ones... since that was more than enough to know he'd missed. After a few sessions with this player, I got up and followed him when he left the table. And I told him what was going on. He didn't seem too concerned about it and I saw it again during later sessions. At that point, it was no longer my concern. I wouldn't go out of my way to try and look but it was often easy to tell when he hit or missed just from noticing the colors out of the corner of my eye.

I never pointed it out to the dealer or anything. And I made an effort to not use this information. But I felt that if the man was aware and didn't care, it wasn't my problem any longer.

[Fictive]

Well, if he is stupid enough to wear reflective sunglasses, take everything he is worth. Serves him right. As for the $100 thing, I wouldn't have told him anything.

[Mika Ollila]

It was just another tell that you picked up on, so I'd say you can exploit it. Its a gray area again though, and as frob23 explained, the ethical course of action in this case would be to tell the player you can see his cards.

I guess I myself would play a few hands to see that I really can tell his cards apart, and then tell the guy about it. Gotta punish him at least a bit for being that stupid.

About taking money at the end, there is nothing wrong about it. The guy proposes you a deal with clear terms and conditions, offering you $100 in exchange for information.

[Gothman]

I'd take him for every penny, I wouldn't of told him, or anyone. If he asked me how I knew, I would just say I had a rush of cards. Although I wouldn't be dumb enough to call one of his his big bluffs with something like 10 high, knowing I am winning cos I can see his cards.

Good Job POTRIPPER was dumb enough

[Flight345]

Ethics aside and just focusing on the old man. He should be happy that from now on he won't lose because of his stupid sunglasses.