Curse of the Kings

[Vito_Nuccio]

I am not superstitious very much at all but I must contemplate that I currently have a curse on me when it comes to getting kings deep into tourneys (400-600 entrants, $5).

The count is at 7, with one additional hand thrown in when I raised and took down pot pre-flop(we will not count him). Out of the 7 times I have had kings I ran into Aces twice and lost. The other 5 times I have had a good advantage of 70% or greater to win a massive pot and have lost. Every time it has been deep into the tourney and wham, the reality of poker hits hard.

Latest Curse Update:
The last two occurrances of the curse happened last night in the same tourney. 565 entrants, $5 entry, $3000 guaranteed. There was 160 players remaining when I was dealt the current crises hand of KK. It was one of the two occurrances of running into AA and I went from 12K in chips to 600. I fought back from position 150 out of 160 and made it to the final table. All nine players had close to the same amount of chips when I get another calling from KK. I battle another player, we go all-in preflop, he has AK, river A, bye-bye, ninth place.

Now during my current Kings curse I have sucked out and beaten kings twice when I should have been dead, is this an omen? But I can not seem to win with them at the moment.

My attitude and account are rolling right along, but the burden of getting sacked with Kings has to end soon. Once I win a big hand deep into a tourney with KK the curse will be ended. But,until then, please send me all the garlic, silver bullets, magic potions, lightning rods, bug spray, whatever it takes to remove the 'Curse of the Kings'

[liladypokerpro]

Bless your heart, Vito!!! I know I've had some bad runs with Kings before, but I honestly can't blame it on a curse. Heck, in the Full Tilt Freeroll here yesterday, I held KK with a 7K stack, and came upon a guy with a 23K stack and he called my raises and then pushed all in holding K2 and having nothing more than a pair of 2s on the flop...but, as luck would have it, he caught his winning card on the river, and I was a goner.

Considering all the variables out there, I think it all boils down to one thing: Aces are overplayed, especially online. People will play any ace many times, even against a huge raise, just to see if it hits, because for some odd reason, people see an Ace as indestructible LOL.

Granted, Aces are not the only hand to beat Kings...there are those who will play any two cards if they're suited, giving them a horribly unfair advantage against a single large pair like Kings.

I can't tell you how many times I've had A Rag suited flush out my Kings (pun clearly intended ) LOL So, in cases like these, I don't blame it on a curse...I blame it on the ignorance of others. By ignorance, I mean their lack of knowledge of the game. Nothing more.

The only way I can sometimes get out of these hands is not to under-estimate the hand possibilities of the other person. That is a bad habit to get into, because by giving other players credit for a hand YOU would have played, you are leaving yourself in the dark as far as what that player HIMSELF would have played.

For instance:

Say you hold [Kc] [Kh]and raise 3x preflop.
Player just calls your raise.

Flop: [Jd] [4c] [Qd]

You make a large bet, and the other player raises you big. Say this other player has been a calling station the whole time you've played with him. Say he's shown all sorts of hands, none of which were considerably good starting hands. He never raises preflop, only calls, and you've known him to fish for draws.

Now think:

Would you put a player like this on 44? No......giving him too much credit.
Would you put a player like this on JJ or QQ? No......giving him too much credit.
Would you put a player like this on AQ? Good possibility here, although his bet is uncharacteristically large for just a pair. He has typically only called or bet minimum when holding top pair.
Would you put a player like this on a flush draw? Definitely...and judging from the raise, probably an Ace high one, something likely as Ad 3d, or comparable, since he's not been getting or playing any considerably good starting hands, this is most likely to be the case.

Now the catch is this......YOU know the odds of him hitting his flush, but he probably doesn't. So, do you chance risking your Kings at this point or do you fold out to the likely draw?

I dunno if I'm making any sense or not...I just woke up...LOL

I have had times where I've given a weak player too much credit for a winning hand when they had nothing more than a pocket pair, or a pair on the board.

BUT, on the same token, I've also not given enough credit to weak players for all the ranges of hands they would play, because the hands they play are not in MY OWN range...and THAT is what ends up being the King killer......so I have learned to give weak players as many hand options as possible, and then see where my Kings stand against all those options. Many times it pays off, and many times it ends up being correct to fold the Kings...most especially if there are more than two people going after the pot...you can almost guarantee one of them is holding an Ace, if not both of them, and when the Ace hits the board, your Kings are toast.

[milehi1206]

The thing that would really scare me about this flop is that the two diamonds are connected. Most times I put someone on a flush draw I'll take me chances with an over pair. But based on your description of this player, he could easily have 9dTd which would actually make him the favorite. Or with such a large raise he could have QJ suited in which case you are in big trouble. Even if he has AdKd it still puts you at a slight disadvantage. Depending on the stage of the tourney and my chipstack in comparison to everyone elses I would seriously consider folding this hand.

[liladypokerpro]

Milehi...thanks for your input on this...I simply came up with this scenario off the top of my head, but it is a pretty common scenario that I have run across when holding a large hole pair, such as Kings for example. Just thought it might help Vito to know that we're all pretty much floating in the same boat when it comes to losing with Kings. I think perhaps my being overly tight sometimes can be a good thing, especially in these cases, and has probably saved me a lot of money in the long run. I don't always play overly tight mind you, but in instances where the need arrises, I make use of my will power.