how does an RNG work?

[Jonathank]

how does an rng work? cause like if i fold and then say omg i would have flopped quads. well is that really true? the flop should be random so if i had called the bb the flop should potentially change? is that true? so really i should not aggravate myself i fold and see i would have hit a one outer on the river? cause if i had paid for a river card the river card would only be the same as that river card 1 in 44 times?

i guess i could read the faq but i am too lazy.

[frob23]

how does an rng work? cause like if i fold and then say omg i would have flopped quads. well is that really true? the flop should be random so if i had called the bb the flop should potentially change? is that true? so really i should not aggravate myself i fold and see i would have hit a one outer on the river? cause if i had paid for a river card the river card would only be the same as that river card 1 in 44 times?

i guess i could read the faq but i am too lazy.

It really depends on the site. Different sites do it different ways. On Full Tilt Poker, they shuffle the deck continuously... so a change in any action or even the timing of an action will change the cards that come. On PokerStars, the deck order is retained once the players are dealt their cards... so the cards you see are the ones which would have come.

On sites where they allow "rabbit" hunting -- like Poker Nordica -- I have to assume they use the same method as Poker Stars or it would be meaningless to show the cards. Of course, they could still do it the same was as Full Tilt Poker because it really doesn't matter but they 'imply' that the order of the desk is static once the hand starts by having that option.

[liladypokerpro]

Yep I think that is one of the main things that really makes me shy away from Full Tilt (or any other site that uses the "continuous shuffle" method). To me, that's not real poker. Then again, I could be over-analytical, but at the same time, since when have you ever been to a casino or watched a game on television where while the players worked out their bets, the dealer continued to shuffle the deck?

[Jonathank]

well i was at mohegan sun yesterday and the dealers were so slow they might as well have been washing the cards on every street.

[liladypokerpro]

LOL that's pretty sad.....but still, the cards remained in the same order they were in when each player received their hand, so still doesn't compare with Full Tilt's "odd" way of doing things

[Jonathank]

no its better that way or they could be accussed of peaking.

[frob23]

no its better that way or they could be accussed of peaking.

Who's accusing who of peeking?

Having a continuous shuffle means the site and have the software change the river card and reward the worst player... lol... if you're going to accuse the sites of conspiring to abuse their players... either method works.

Put simply, a person with enough access could cheat in any manner they want and knowing what cards are coming is much less important than knowing the cards the other players have -- which is why we have seen this form of cheating happen. Since it's impossible for the machine state to not know the hole cards of each player... this is a form that works regardless of the shuffle and is pretty much as profitable as you need to be.


Edit: Please don't let this be another "online poker is rigged" thread because I thought everyone was past that.

[C8H10N4O2]

It really depends on the site. Different sites do it different ways. On Full Tilt Poker, they shuffle the deck continuously... so a change in any action or even the timing of an action will change the cards that come. On PokerStars, the deck order is retained once the players are dealt their cards... so the cards you see are the ones which would have come.

On sites where they allow "rabbit" hunting -- like Poker Nordica -- I have to assume they use the same method as Poker Stars or it would be meaningless to show the cards. Of course, they could still do it the same was as Full Tilt Poker because it really doesn't matter but they 'imply' that the order of the desk is static once the hand starts by having that option.

Hey economist... in our RNG discussion during the PTOTW, this is one of the threads that first brought it to my attention.

[grimReaper]

Hey economist... in our RNG discussion during the PTOTW, this is one of the threads that first brought it to my attention.

Thanks, I'll read this on my next study break.

[C8H10N4O2]

Thanks, I'll read this on my next study break.

there is more out there on the topic, but Pokerstars does use that different RNG that would make rabbit hunting actually "work". But anyway, I'm late for my tutoring deal.

[grimReaper]

there is more out there on the topic, but Pokerstars does use that different RNG that would make rabbit hunting actually "work". But anyway, I'm late for my tutoring deal.

maybe you should post pone it again. he'll understand

[C8H10N4O2]

maybe you should post pone it again. he'll understand

Haha... it's crunch time for him. His test is Tuesday and we've got a ton of ground to cover to get him to the grade he wants. I don't know if he'd be as understanding this time.

[grimReaper]

Great thread.

Hypothetically speaking, it *could* be possible to determine before hand what cards are going to come out in PS if you could hack it, but impossible w/ FTP b/c you only know what card comes out the millisecond before it comes out. But then again, you could hack a lot things and become rich.

Yep I think that is one of the main things that really makes me shy away from Full Tilt (or any other site that uses the "continuous shuffle" method).

How is it relevant to you whether the deck is being shuffled continuously or not, as long as the deck is random? I don't think poker is defined by the shuffle (as long as it's random), at least in the grand scheme of things.