High Pair vs 2 low pair

[MikeKnows]

When you have a high pair either from having a pair of AAs ,KKs, or QQs in your hand or one in your hand and one on the board . When you are betting and another player is re raising you ; you have to think what do they have? An example was given on here about a hand that Phil Helmouth was in where he had two low pair vs a pair of AAs of course he did not know that at time-RIGHT? So am I saying you have to fold a high pair when you have been re-raised against No I'm saying you have to consider the person you are playing against -how they play ,types of hands they win with . So making notes on players when you are in all your tournaments so you can get a feel or understanding of the players you play is important for you to win more tournaments or place higher and more money-RIGHT?

[irishpkr]

When you have a high pair either from having a pair of AAs ,KKs, or QQs in your hand or one in your hand and one on the board . When you are betting and another player is re raising you ; you have to think what do they have? An example was given on here about a hand that Phil Helmouth was in where he had two low pair vs a pair of AAs of course he did not know that at time-RIGHT? So am I saying you have to fold a high pair when you have been re-raised against No I'm saying you have to consider the person you are playing against -how they play ,types of hands they win with . So making notes on players when you are in all your tournaments so you can get a feel or understanding of the players you play is important for you to win more tournaments or place higher and more money-RIGHT?

This is what we call, in the business, generalised wishywashy verbal spew

[Wyte22]

Folding high pairs is strictly player and board dependent. if you have AA on a J 6 3 board against a loose player, I am probably setting him all in, depending on chip stacks of everyone in the hand, how many people are behind me to act and any tells I might have picked up on to give me an idea what he has. If we are playing a rock, This is insta fold, all day everyday. AA, KK, QQ are all naked pairs on a board like this. Laying it down could be a mistake, playing it could be a mistake. It is just one of those hands that you need to judge all the factors and take into consideration all future rounds of betting, because if you call that re-raise you sir will be facing an all in on the river after he value towns you on the turn, again player dependent.

[infinii]

This is very dependent on board texture. Next you need to look at the type of player you're against and be able to assign a range of possible hands he/she could have.

Only after you do this are you able to decide/guess if they have 2 pair, set or simply raising you with top pair.

Simply folding overpairs (or top pairs) anytime someone reraises you is going to be a huge flaw in your game that opponents will exploit.

[necoloschi]

In my humble opinion, and I with a high pair and depending on this high pair; eg AA or KK would not leave the blind low, so that players with medium and low jogassem letters, and the second step, depends on the player who is playing you will have several possibilities for action, because only with a view also made the decision that your opponent will be successful.

[phaul]

When you have a high pair either from having a pair of AAs ,KKs, or QQs in your hand or one in your hand and one on the board . When you are betting and another player is re raising you ; you have to think what do they have? An example was given on here about a hand that Phil Helmouth was in where he had two low pair vs a pair of AAs of course he did not know that at time-RIGHT? So am I saying you have to fold a high pair when you have been re-raised against No I'm saying you have to consider the person you are playing against -how they play ,types of hands they win with . So making notes on players when you are in all your tournaments so you can get a feel or understanding of the players you play is important for you to win more tournaments or place higher and more money-RIGHT?

Ok, so let me get this right - my opponents are NOT all the same, and I have to adjust my decisions according to their playing style - RIGHT?

Tyvm for this gold nugget of info.

[infinii]

Ok, so let me get this right - my opponents are NOT all the same, and I have to adjust my decisions according to their playing style - RIGHT?

Tyvm for this gold nugget of info.

Yes.

You've heard of playing the playing and not your cards right?

[phaul]

Yes.

You've heard of playing the playing and not your cards right?

I really hope this is a re-level. However, I fear not...

[irishpkr]

I dont think it was tbh You just won teh internetz

[kingmotan]

I just lost 25$ in a hand last night. It was a live game..
I had J2 d . The guy raised 2XBB .I called.
The flop was J 2 4 rainbow. He raised 3$ i went Allin with my remaining 23$. The donk instantly called. He had AA. The turn paired the 4. :

[liladypokerpro]

No offense intended, but J2d is not a respectable hand to call a raise with....not even a min-raise....and you are calling him a donk for having AA and winning the hand? I'm confused...

[phaul]

No offense intended, but J2d is not a respectable hand to call a raise with....not even a min-raise....

Especially 25BB deep.

Again, no offence intended but you were the donk in that hand:
a) Why are you calling pre?
b) Why are you raising 3x pot? This is definitely not the way to extract max value.

You can't really call him a donk for getting aces in 25BB deep on that dry a board. He could have folded cos your shove is hardly ever a bluff, it's KJ at absolute worst. He also should have raised more pre. All in all a really terrible hand by everyone involved.

Something to think about; if you think he's a donk for calling, that means you think any reasonable player would fold aces there, so why do you shove?

Also, this beat is ridic standard; off the top of my head he was about 26% to win.

[kingmotan]

There was some steaming at the table. I was waiting for a hand to go up against him AGAIN! So it didn;t really matter if it was J2, 72, or QQ. Well, I would certainly fold Aces if someone would make the play I made. I usually don't play only AA,kk,qq,jj, ak, aq suited. I like to gamble a little.
26% ? Count again please! 5 outs...
Thanks for your opinions, I am really Not a donk...
Regards

[allthatremains]

There was some steaming at the table. I was waiting for a hand to go up against him AGAIN! So it didn;t really matter if it was J2, 72, or QQ. Well, I would certainly fold Aces if someone would make the play I made. I usually don't play only AA,kk,qq,jj, ak, aq suited. I like to gamble a little.
26% ? Count again please! 5 outs...
Thanks for your opinions, I am really Not a donk...
Regards

5 outs on turn - A,A,4,4,4
8 outs on river - A,A, 4,4,4,?,?,? The ? represents pairing the turn card.

So 13 outs total This is an estimate as a wheel (A,2,3,4,5) is possible,
the "rainbow" board could also make a flush with the j2d
j2d could hit j or 2 for full house.

26/27% overall win for AA after flop.

[Wyte22]

There was some steaming at the table. I was waiting for a hand to go up against him AGAIN! So it didn;t really matter if it was J2, 72, or QQ. Well, I would certainly fold Aces if someone would make the play I made. I usually don't play only AA,kk,qq,jj, ak, aq suited. I like to gamble a little.
26% ? Count again please! 5 outs...
Thanks for your opinions, I am really Not a donk...
Regards

First off, J2s is a horrible hand to begin with (less than 40% to win against any random two cards!)

2nd, you got the best possible flop (outside of a FH or quads) for J2s.

3rd. That board is NOT threatening to AA. For all he knew, you could have been pushing all in witha str8 draw and he was ahead. Calling your re-raise is standard on a board like that (opp. dependent call tho, it is a case by case situation). But against someone who can call raises (even min raises) with J2s, this is a standard play against a loose player

4th, he made a great call to see that he was in fact behind. He caught up. No biggie, that's poker. He is not a donk, you sir/ma'am are the donk because calling a PF raise with J2s is just simply crazy.

[janu2]

I think if you are in big tournament and you analyzing players you can play against them later and you already know how they play its only pluss.
ps:I dont speak so good english becouse i am from Finland.

[intopot]

Lets take the example provided by one of our members AA and the flop is
J 6 3 . you have three cards on the board. so there are nine more of these three cards, but only one of these cards pairing is good for you because your opponent will boat if one of the other two cards pairs the board. So on the turn you have 3 out of 47 (52 - 2 - 3 ) of taking the lead with two pair (ie counterfieting his two pair) . A new card will come on the turn and it will give you another 3 out of 46 chances since the turn card can now pair on the river So you have 3 out 47 plus 3 out 46 that the original live flop card will pair plus 3 out 46 chances that the turn card will pair. So you have approximately 9 out of 46 chances or about a 20% chance of counterfeiting his hand. Note he has 4 out 47 chances of boating the turn plus 4 of 46 chances of boating the river. so his chances of hitting a boat 8 out 46.5 (17%) are just a little less than you counterfeiting his small two pair.

Of course you also have a 2/47 plus 2/46 chance of hitting the trip aces which is about 8.6%

So discounting the flushes and str8 which dont look likely you have about a 20% chance of counterfeiting his two pair with a good board pairing and an 8 % chance of hitting trips to which will also win. Note if you hit the trips his redraws to a boat (17%) are all counterfeited by your higher boat.

[Larzzone]

i think you have right, you must fold good hands to , if you always play this hands you will loose a lot of money in the future, you must realize that the player against you have a better hand