Sticky Situaition - What would you do?

[Brooklynbum]

The villain is tricky and super aggressive when he plays hands. He plays his draws and his big hands almost the same way.

I've seen him move in on draws aggressively but he also plays his big hands the same way. Some other hands that he was in he'd sometimes show down K/Q suited, Ax suited, PPs good drawing type hands but never rags. I never saw him show down a bluff and most players would fold to his aggression.

There were a few times I tangled with the villain when I re-raised with mid PP and he 3 bet and I'd fold. Other times he'd fold to my re-raise.

This particular hand I decided to limp/call to see if I could hit my set. I was actually surprised the button called the bet as he usually played super tight.

I know could've PF raised in this instance but like I noted before if the villain shoved or re-popped me (as he's done in a few times) I'd might have folded. The villain is a very solid player and very aggressive. We were battling back forth pretty much the whole session.

My question is what do you think of my play? Was my turn play ok given the narrow range of hands he's played?

Should I have re-popped him PF even though he has the ability to shove or 3 bet aggressively?

Should I have just led out with a bet UTG to start?

Should I have checked behind him on the turn?

Was there anything that I could've done differently? What would you put the villain on knowing he's capable playing a better PP, a draw or a made fullhouse in the same fashion?

I don't know if anyone knows this guy but the villain is NSDClan and he multi-tables 6 man $50NL on FT.

Any suggestions/comments/insight would be appreciated.

FYI, I recently moved up to 50NL from 25NL this month and I've been holding my own (I'm up $43 after a little more than 2k hands) but I do think most of the players are better at this level than at 25NL. I wanted to see if I could play at this level and if not I'd have no problems dropping down.

Also any other advice that I could use playing 50NL as compared to 25NL? Your experiences and observations at 50 NL would be appreciated also.

I'll post the results a little later. Thanks guys.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $48.50
SB: $118.45
BB: $69.35
Hero (UTG): $93.80
MP: $101.50
CO: $67.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with T T
Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, BTN calls $2.50

Flop: ($9.50) 6 8 9 (3 players)
SB bets $7, Hero raises to $21, BTN folds, SB calls $14

Turn: ($51.50) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $34, SB raises to $94.45 all in

[gamer4life27]

Ummm... there is $179.95 before Rake in there, and it's $60.45 to call. Your getting close to 3 to 1 on your money with an over pair and a straight draw. Most likely, he has an over pair as well, but of course it would be higher. Or he might even be on a straight/flush draw, or he might even have an A 6/7/8/9/10 suited and is shoving. I can probably rule out A 8/9 here, and maybe A 10. So the only hands he is likely to have here are Over Pair, Set of 6's, a flush draw, or a straight draw.

Knowing this, there are more hands here that can beat you than can give you profit. Since he is very tight, he probablty would not have a made straight, or a full house (unless it was pocket 8's or 9's). But I do not see him raising in the SB with mid-pair range hands. But you never know, maybe he wanted to push out the BB, and maybe scare you two out of the hand either there or later.

This hand is difficult because for one, it's online. And two, you say he is pretty much unreadable. With these types of people, me personally, I like to gamble and see where it takes me. Unless he has pocket 6's, you have outs to win. Me personally, I would go for it because I would know it would get to me later on, not knowing what he had and I could even be ahead. But I would also think to not call because of all the hands that can beat me. But I know after a while, I would call to see if I was ahead or not.

I am guessing that you called the hand, he had a draw putting you ahead and he hit his draw and you were wondering if folding was better than knowing you were ahead and losing in the end.

[phaul]

Disclaimer: I'm not a cash game specialist.

First off, switch tables. There are plenty of soft tables at 50NL, you don't need to play with this "tricky and super-aggressive" guy if you don't feel like you can exploit him.

Do you have stats on his pfr% from SB? It would be really useful to put him on a range, as you stated he was aggro but we don't know if that includes from the blinds, or how aggro.

Also, need more info on the board: is there a flush draw out there?

Definitely raise pre. If he's hyper-aggro/a maniac, you can 4-bet and call his shove, if not then just flat his 3bet. From what you said flatting seems best. As played, call his raise as limp-3bet UTG looks really dodgy and will fuck with your mind as well as his cos you will have no idea how he's reacted to your play so will have fuck-all idea how to play the rest of the hand.

I quite like the flop play.

Bet/fold turn is retarded, if you're gonna fold to a shove you shouldn't bet. I personally prefer a check as if you bet to any reasonable size you should only be getting called by hands that beat you (unless you think he's capable of check/raising with a draw, in which case bet/snap call). I then call a reasonably-sized bet on a blank river and fold to a reasonably-sized bet on a nasty river. If river's a ten I call. As played, I call the turn if he's even remotely capable of having a draw here, which your blurb suggests he is, as you're getting 35.8/191.1 = 19%


My opinion re. his exact hand:
He would prob 3-bet a set on the flop, esp. if he's been aggro before and feels like you might go nuts against him, so FH/quads is relatively unlikely. Line seems kinda weird and spewy with an overpair. I can't really see why he'd flat your flop raise then c/r a blank turn. I can't actually work this out. To him, your hand looks a lot like either flopped 2pr, a FH or a draw, so his c/r on the turn should be massive strength. I'd prob say most likely hand is a FH(/quads), followed by a draw, but I'm confused.

Oh, and I'm now away for a week, so won't be able to respond to people telling me I'm wrong/arrogant 'til next Weds/Thurs. Gl

[phaul]

Gamer: SB has Hero covered. Also, I don't really see anything in his PFR range which gives him trip sixes.

[irishpkr]

This hand is difficult because for one, it's online. And two, you say he is pretty much unreadable. With these types of people, me personally, I like to gamble and see where it takes me. Unless he has pocket 6's, you have outs to win. Me personally, I would go for it because I would know it would get to me later on, not knowing what he had and I could even be ahead. But I would also think to not call because of all the hands that can beat me. But I know after a while, I would call to see if I was ahead or not.

Wow, I actually havent slept properly in 3days, so I'm not sure I read this, I hope I didnt, but I dunno...

As to the hand: Just an FYI, you cant 'repop', '3bet' or 're-raise' someone when you are the first to act preflop, its a raise.
UTG limp/call is so bad oop. There are two things that make a hand profitable: position and initiative. The way you play this hand, you have neither. I'd even go so far as to say that L/c oop EVEN WITH TT might be a -EV play, as crazy as it sounds.

Flop play is debatable for me: what hands that we are ahead of are we getting value from here? He calls the raise with bigger overpairs, 2pairs (if they are in his range, which I doubt, but then again we are readless here), sets (raising 88 or 99, maybe even 66 is very easily possible), as well as maybe some pair and draw (rare) and A9 type hands. We have position on PFR, so call is OK with me. I mean you are 200BB deep here, going crazy here with a very marginal holding is not my idea of fun.

As for calling the turn shove? We only need to be good like 17% of the time (roughly). At least we overtook 98 with the board pairing, turn is probably quite close to EV neutral if you think he is capable of bluffing here. Personally I would fold, but I would also check behind on the turn too

There's a saying that I think is really useful when in spots such as these: Every time you are in a very marginal spot, it is fine to fold, even if this costs you money, it will probably be a smaller loss than when you continue and make a mistake on a later street. Not the perfect wording, but basically: if its a very close decision, there cant be much EV either way, fold.

[Brooklynbum]

BTN: $48.50
SB: $118.45
BB: $69.35
Hero (UTG): $93.80
MP: $101.50
CO: $67.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with T T
Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, BTN calls $2.50

Flop: ($9.50) 6 8 9 (3 players)
SB bets $7, Hero raises to $21, BTN folds, SB calls $14

Turn: ($51.50) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $34, SB raises to $94.45 all in

Oops sorry about guys, I forgot to put in the suits.

These are great comments, and I think that all of you are right.

As for the open limp, normally that's my usual line but that's the way I decided to play this hand.

As for the "semantics", you're probably right Irsh and I have those terms messed up or I misunderstood what the terms meant but that's just a result of me not knowing the correct terminology.

But it's still an interesting hand and most players at 25NL weren't as skillfull as this guy IMO.

I don't have any stats on this guy as I don't use any of the poker tracking programs, I'm seriously thinking about getting it but I didn't felt I needed it when I was playing 25NL, as I was doing very well at those limits..

Any other ideas or comments? I'd like to hear them...

I'll post the results either later tonight or tomorrow...

[irishpkr]

Re: a tracking program, holdem manager is sooo worth it. If you're gonna be playing $50nl, hell even $25nl, $55 for the small stakes version(up to $50nl) or $80 for the full program, you will make that back in no time from the help it will provide you.

[Brooklynbum]

I've only looked into PokerTracker.

Is holdem manger and PT the same product basically? Have you used PT at all?

Some people say PT is the best others think otherwise.

I'd like to hear more about these poker programs.

[gamer4life27]

Gamer: SB has Hero covered. Also, I don't really see anything in his PFR range which gives him trip sixes.

I never said that Hero had SB covered... And as for having a set of sixes, he can have suited connectors such as 56, 67, or maybe even 68 (highly unlikely). Also, he could even have pocket sixes on the flop and hit quads on the turn.

[EliminateU]

With the info you provided, I would have been more cautious on flop to not put myself in a position to be pot-committed. Knowing my best card is a 7, next best possibly a 10 although it makes a very drawy board worse, and even a J as it gives you an open-end on the turn which makes your odds marginally better.

My info on NSDClan makes it even better. he is a hard-worker who is a little in the red. His raise pre gives little info, since you limped. if you had min-raised at least he must be more judicious...he isn't a very strong player, but is not stupid by any means. I hate limping, when I do it I scream at myself for being a candy-a$$. The flop may have missed him altogether but his read on you may have told him to float and check-shove turn. I agree with Irish, who was more civil in this discussion than I've seen before , about DEFINITELY checking behind on the turn. You have no reason to bet there.

SO, obviously you called or you'd have nothing else to post. I'm guessing he stacked you with JJ, or had J-9 of clubs and was shoving with flush + pair and over hit either another 9, a jack or a club. With the image you describe, J9 suited pre isn't totally out of question, and he tosses it if reraised strong. flop hits him good with pair over and flush draw, calls, misses and check shoves. Also possible you are looking at QQ ( i highly doubt KK or AA).

[Brooklynbum]

Hey Elim - Thanks for the reply.

Yes I agree that I started this hand off right from the get go. Since I decided to limp in it put me in a bad spot. I'm not going to defend my limping in because in retrospect NSD wasn't that loose to begin with. When he raised usually he has something decent.

The flop bet from him seemed a little light considering the texture of the board. My raise was to see where I was at in the hand. Maybe it was a little too aggressive but I didn't want him to catch an overcard on the turn if he was playing something like A/Q, A/J or even A/K.

When he just called the raise, I thought perhaps he was on a flush draw. I agree that my flop bet was a bit loose but again I wanted to test him to see if had something.

Then when he checked to me on the turn, I was prett sure I was ahead, then he pushed which threw me for a loop.

It was a pretty sick bet as he could any number of hands including air. He could be on a O/E flush draw. He could have overcards or he could have the made hand already and I'm drawing basically dead.

As for the hand here's how it transpired:

Full Tilt Poker Game #9417553858: Table Deerbrook (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:38:55 ET - 2008/12/10
Seat 1: KillaMons ($48.50)
Seat 2: nsdclan ($118.45)
Seat 3: alinemi ($69.35)
Seat 4: ME ($93.80)
Seat 5: Truconfidence ($101.50)
Seat 6: intuitional ($67)
nsdclan posts the small blind of $0.25
alinemi posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to YelloMenace [Tc Ts]
ME calls $0.50
Truconfidence folds
intuitional folds
KillaMons calls $0.50
nsdclan raises to $3
alinemi folds
ME calls $2.50
KillaMons calls $2.50
*** FLOP *** [6c 8c 9s]
nsdclan bets $7
ME raises to $21
KillaMons folds
nsdclan calls $14
*** TURN *** [6c 8c 9s] [6d]
nsdclan checks
ME bets $34
nsdclan raises to $94.45, and is all in
ME has 15 seconds left to act
ME calls $35.80, and is all in
nsdclan shows [As Ah]
ME shows [Tc Ts]
Uncalled bet of $24.65 returned to nsdclan
*** RIVER *** [6c 8c 9s 6d] [7s]
nsdclan shows two pair, Aces and Sixes
intuitional: nice play dumbass
ME shows a straight, Ten high
ME wins the pot ($188.10) with a straight, Ten high
intuitional: lol
nsdclan adds $25.35
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $191.10 | Rake $3
Board: [6c 8c 9s 6d 7s]
Seat 1: KillaMons (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: nsdclan (small blind) showed [As Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 3: alinemi (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: ME showed [Tc Ts] and won ($188.10) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 5: Truconfidence didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: intuitional didn't bet (folded)

He showed AA. Which was a very interesting way of playing a big pair. NSD must have put me on a PP such as JJ, QQ otherwise why check the turn? If he put me on a flush draw, there's no doubt he would've bet out. But by checking the turn he gave me enough rope to hang myself. I thought for sure he was on a draw and I bet out to try and block it.

I guess I thought wrong. My read was way off.

I thought this hand was well played by NSD, although I sucked out on him, it doesn't change the fact that I misplayed this hand big time.

Again, even though I won this sick pot, I wasn't happy with my play at all and to be honest I thought NSD played my better than I played my own hand.

Thanks for the comments....I'll post more interesting hands and I appreciate the comments/suggestions etc.