Pocket Kings, are they foldable?

[braveboat27]

Interesting comments, all... Easy to agree with a little in each. I'll stick to my original comment, though: very hard to fold KK pre-flop.

[PiJuice15]

I agree, it is very hard to fold Kings preflop, and I have only done it once, I was pretty much 100% sure that the nit wouldn't have limp-reraised all in without Aces. The only time I would ever THINK about folding Aces or Kings are nearing or at the bubble of a satellite tournament.

[Guidugli]

I never ever fold KK pf, but a only play ring. Even if it´s the most solid rock shoving, i call. If he shows AA, well, i hope for a third K lol.

[Brooklynbum]

I really think that folding KK is tough but you have to do it you're going to be a good poker player.

I've folded KK a few times that I can remember, and it really depends on the situation and the player you're up against. Position is crucial also.

To say that you would never fold KK PF is a leak IMO. A real big leak.

Now this is where poker software can help you online. Let's say you're facing a pretty nitty player and his 4bets are rare but when he does he has a strong hand and I'm talking AA, AK or KK. Then if you're facing a raising war with this guy you can pretty much be sure he's got one of the top 3 hands.

Against a looser player, I'd call in a heartbeat but against a super nitty player I'd really have to think twice about it.

If you're playing live it'll be a little harder but if you're faced with a 4bet or 5 bet then you can pretty much narrow down his/her holding.

I know it's difficult to do but it's definitely doable. This is a cash situation of course. In tournaments, well I'd guess I'd have to go bust with KK.

[Fictive]

I had to come back to this thread again. A while back I was reading a poker magazine and it had an article about "losing the right way", I won't get into it.

However, there was a great quote by Matt Lessinger:

I've mucked pocket kings pre-flop three times in 12 years. Altough I was correct every time, that shows how rare the occasion is that you are beat.

Feels that I'm facing aces a whole lot more often though...

[Jonathank]

Now, I could be wrong. And I have been running really badly at $10NL (which is where this happened) which might have made me stick to a more conservative side. I hated the fold but I made it anyway.

.

no i could never fold KK for $10!!!!!! jeez

[BONSA7]

Some time ago I posted, that I got KK in one 025/50$ session 3 times within 350 hands.

Every single time in this session i was facing AA, so i lost 150$.

hmm, sry i got KK 4 times in that session, but one time i lost the all in against JJ.......lol

so -200$ in 2 hours.............thx KK!!!!

[frob23]

no i could never fold KK for $10!!!!!! jeez

It's $10 but it's not $10... it's 100xBB in a hand where the range the other guy is shoving in this spot is never QQ or worse. Would I do this with $25 at $25NL against his range? Would I do it for $200 at $200NL against this player's range? Would I so it for $5,000 at $25/$50NL against this type of player after this sort of action.

The amount of real money is not really important. The size of a bet is relative to the stacks, pot, and blinds. A huge bet at one limit at into one pot might be a tiny bet at another limit or another size pot.

These tables are full or really weak and passive players. So when this player 5-bets all-in for that much money into a pot that size, his range narrows dramatically. Against a LAGy fish or a shove-monkey, this is an easy call. But against a weak and passive player like this, I just can't see calling being +EV.

[RiverstarsVictim]

Some people have mentioned satellites where folding KK is ok. How about rebuy tournaments?

I was in one earler where I built up a 20k stack after about 25 minutes and felt I really didn't need to do much else until after the 1st break when the rebuys/gambling were done with. Not that the situation happened to me but this thread was on my mind at the time with many still in gambling/rebuy mode.

Your thoughts please?

[Fictive]

Eh, not long ago I mentioned that I never fold KK pre-flop no matter what. Well, I did yesterday, I think it might've beeen one of the very first times. Game was NL100, I opened 4xBB, MP called, next guy raised to $15, button went all-in for $137, I had at that point $170. Obvious fold, of course. Turns out that the guy who raised to $15 had AA and button had AKs.

[kczd]

why is it 5 chances? tot that there are only 2 more K?

Really hard to fold Kings pre-flop. Even if facing AA, you have five chances to pull another King out of the deck, and the odds that you are, in fact, facing AA, is relatively small.

[kczd]

ya its unfortunate but still it's poker. in the cash game sessions that i play, this one guy kept losing with KK nearly all the time while i was at the same table... got the nick "cursed K". lol.

Some time ago I posted, that I got KK in one 025/50$ session 3 times within 350 hands.

Every single time in this session i was facing AA, so i lost 150$.

hmm, sry i got KK 4 times in that session, but one time i lost the all in against JJ.......lol

so -200$ in 2 hours.............thx KK!!!!

[Clearwheezy]

well, what table were you playing at frob? he could have easily had ak, or qq, or aq...those are all viable hands to take a pot PREFLOP, but once the flop comes, there is a certain amount of chance that comes into play. presonally, i would have played it. preflop, pretaining to your actions, everything other than the two cards you are dealt is under your control.

i will fold kk post flop in certain situations, but not preflop, ever!

[RiverstarsVictim]

Eh, not long ago I mentioned that I never fold KK pre-flop no matter what. Well, I did yesterday, I think it might've beeen one of the very first times. Game was NL100, I opened 4xBB, MP called, next guy raised to $15, button went all-in for $137, I had at that point $170. Obvious fold, of course. Turns out that the guy who raised to $15 had AA and button had AKs.

Cracking fold made all the more better you actually got to see the AA. It feels like winning a buy-in.

Can you expand on "obvious fold"? Obvious tell or playing scared?

[Fictive]

Cracking fold made all the more better you actually got to see the AA. It feels like winning a buy-in.

Can you expand on "obvious fold"? Obvious tell or playing scared?

Well, I this was a table that was relatively tight all around, and not overly aggressive. The player who raised it to $15 was extremely tight. (I can't remember his exact stats on PAhud, but his flop% was under 15% in any case) So this is obvious that he has a hand. I hadn't seen him raising preflop with AK, well, hardly ever so I figured he had a pocket pair, most likely queens or aces. The player on the button I had no stats on, but during the session he seemed to be an ABC-type of player who didn't get involved in many pots. Once he pushed all-in for 137xBB, I was a 100% either of the two had aces, who cares what the first caller had at that point... Given that I had only the 4xBB invested, I felt it was extremely easy to fold: basically no money invested, had a raise and a re-raise thrown my way on a tight(ish) table.