2/5 Cash hand, largest live loss for me to date.

[Wyte22]

ya I am soo just avoiding poker right now lol Largest pot I've ever lost.

Alittle information, this is a very very aggressive 2/5 table, seeing $1K pots with top pair is not uncommon. PF raises go to $20-35 depending on the player, with $35 coming from the hyper aggressive players who Cbet 80%++ on Flop and give 2nd barrels.

UTG and MP3 are both very aggressive with UTG re-raising PF ALOT, and he tilts easily to. He's already down 2 Buyins. MP3 is loose-aggressive, and will re-raise PF with nothing and put a pot size Cbet on any flop with a re-raise PF. Both usually keep their PF re-raises to about the $65-70 range.

So I am SB in this hand.

Stack sizes for those involved in hand:
Hero- $1100
UTG- $760
MP3- $1350

I get dealt J7

UTG raises to $20, gets 3 callers onto me, I call the $18 and BB folds (pot is $105).

Flop comes out T98

I Check, even though I flop the more or less nuts. UTG bets $125, 2 fold then MP3 calls, I raise to $275.

So now it is $150 more into a pot of $480, UTG thinks for a few minutes, then raises all in, for Another $465. MP3 thinks for alittle while, by this point, I have an effective stack of 805, but calling the all in, will leave me with 340. This means if MP3 just calls, and I move all in, MP3 will be getting $2325-$340 or Roughly, 7 to 1 odds, which means, he is calling regardless, if he has a set, top two, flush draw, straight draw is calling to. Hands that aren't calling at this point from MP3 is top pair, over pairs, over cards.

soo MP3 just flat calls, and I move all in to, MP3 goes back into the tank for another few minutes, by this time the table is buzzing about what the hell we are holding. Finally MP3 calls.

Pot is around $3000 (give a take a few dollars).

Soo we elect to show our hands before the turn card.

I show the J7s
UTG shows JJ
and MP3 shows Q9 <---now, no str8 flush is possible for me


Turn was a 2 and MP3 wins, everyone else is drawing dead, even though I made the flush also!

Poker is soo curel

[HeyKidMove]

Rough hand. If only MP3 would have folded instead of flatting the all-in.

[C8H10N4O2]

That's pretty sick. Interesting live play hand. I think I'm stuck losing that pot every time as well. I'm sure you'll bounce back wyte and won't be avoiding poker for too long. Then inevitably, we'll have another story of "even larger pot lost"

Rough hand to lose though, especially seeing that you had two of his heart outs. Do you normally play 2/5?

[travz21]

Just curious as to why you elected to play such a hand in such a bad position with a hyper aggressive table. You're basically giving away 20 bucks unless you hit the flop like you did.

[C8H10N4O2]

$18 for a $105 pot with hyper-aggressive players who have $1k behind them... I can't fault him too much for calling with those pot odds and huge implied odds even out of position.

[travz21]

Huge implied odds?

You're never going to have the nuts with this hand unless you hit the straight flush, and your table mates are going to be playing every hand that beats your draws like A2s, K8s, or QJo. I just think it's an unprofitable hand when playing it in that position against a hyper aggressive table.

If you must call in the small blind against a hyper aggressive table, I'd stick to pocket pairs and AXs or KQs type of hands. Then you'd have good implied odds. J7s doesn't bring much to the table, in my opinion. This hand is very coolerish though.

[C8H10N4O2]

With an aggressive table, you could easily hit the "virtual nuts" such as what wyte hit. If he had a very tight table image, there is bluffing potential as well against a scary board. You don't have to have the absolute nuts to win a big pot. I'm not saying I personally would call in this situation, but $20 is not a huge amount... 4BB's, and depending on your image etc... I'm just saying I can't fault wyte for calling to the extent of saying "you are giving away $20."

[judablonde]

That's was a hard loss. Hope venting about it helped you out some. One thing about poker, it can really get to you sometimes. Better luck at the tables.

[Wyte22]

Amen dew. The implied odds is the ONLY reason I am calling OOP on this hand. If I hit my hand just right (small chance but when your 200BBs deep, draws mean ALOT, ALOT more). Soo If I hit my hand good, like a str8 or 2 pair, I am almost assured that I will be stacking at least one of them because of their tendcies to play big pots with small pot hands (lack of pot control).

And the avoiding poker is just a joke but I am more seriously considering coming back to online rather than live simply because of the selection of games.

and no I don't normally play 2/5 but it was a good game, cuz I had played with majority of the table in 1/2 games in the past and I knew how they play!

[Wyte22]

That's was a hard loss. Hope venting about it helped you out some. One thing about poker, it can really get to you sometimes. Better luck at the tables.

Venting does help but seeing if I could have played it differently is the main reason I posted it.

Should I have check raised or just bet out on the flop and let the UTG raise me? would that have gotten the MP3 to fold? do you play the hand the same way I do? if not, what do you do different?

I wanna learn

[stuartbnyc]

I really think it comes down to your reraise after UTG bet out and MP3 flat calls. At that point, I think one of them has a flush draw. I might have reraised the pot or a little less, which would have been about $600. UTG would have still shoved though and you would have been in the same position with MP3 flatting and you having to move your last $400-500 in. But it might have signaled to MP3 that he was facing perhaps AJ hearts. That's the only thing I can think of. Unlucky hand altogether.

[phaul]

Calling pre is flat-out awful. Do the maths and you'll see why. I don't even call if it's just a min-raise. C/r flop is good if they're hyper-aggressive and the flop won't be checked through. However, your raise size is really bad. $150 into $480? You're giving them better than 20%! This can't be maximum value. I prob make it around $500 total, maybe slightly more. Your aim here is to ship your stack in ASAP, so yeah, unlucky dude.

Should I have check raised or just bet out on the flop and let the UTG raise me? would that have gotten the MP3 to fold?

If you're properly rolled, you don't want MP3 to fold; you get your money in good vs. him.



Can I also just comment on how mega-fucking-retarded UTG is here. I don't really understand what goes on in some people's brains; "Ya, I haz an OPEN-ENDED str8 draw WIV AN OVAPAIR! This is so awesum! If a Q or a 7 hits my str8 iz alwayz gud. But anywayz, I haz an ovapair, teh ovaz neva hav betta. Dey r such fish bettin into me, I haz dem sooooo crush-ed."

Also MP3, wow, how does he not get that his hand is probably not good/completely crushed by a better flush draw? This outcome is probably the best he could hope for given the action and he's still -EV.

[Wyte22]

Calling pre is flat-out awful. Do the maths and you'll see why. I don't even call if it's just a min-raise. C/r flop is good if they're hyper-aggressive and the flop won't be checked through. However, your raise size is really bad. $150 into $480? You're giving them better than 20%! This can't be maximum value. I prob make it around $500 total, maybe slightly more. Your aim here is to ship your stack in ASAP, so yeah, unlucky dude.



If you're properly rolled, you don't want MP3 to fold; you get your money in good vs. him.



Can I also just comment on how mega-fucking-retarded UTG is here. I don't really understand what goes on in some people's brains; "Ya, I haz an OPEN-ENDED str8 draw WIV AN OVAPAIR! This is so awesum! If a Q or a 7 hits my str8 iz alwayz gud. But anywayz, I haz an ovapair, teh ovaz neva hav betta. Dey r such fish bettin into me, I haz dem sooooo crush-ed."

Also MP3, wow, how does he not get that his hand is probably not good/completely crushed by a better flush draw? This outcome is probably the best he could hope for given the action and he's still -EV.

I completely agree with the C/R was too small. I am changing that about my game, I did bigger C/Rs tonight and made massive profit and the PF call, while mathetically flawed, is helpful in metagame and establishing unpredictability. My image was tight-aggressive. So yes, I do agree that CR was WAY to small, and that I need to change some stuff about my game, to improve it for the long-term


No, I am not yet properly rolled for 2/5, I was just simply taking a shot at that table since I knew how most of the players played. I am back at 1/2 now, trying to beat it for 40BB/hr re-build my lost, made $1000 in 2 days beating it at the rate of about 45BB/hr.

[Brooklynbum]

I would also advocate betting out on the flop instead of checking (with the intent of check raising) especially with the 2nd nuts.

When i play at those stakes with those type of super aggro players and I'm acting first with a vulnerable hand like the 2nd nut straight or a possible dominated flush draw...and I'm the first to act, I'm going to be firing out a nice sized bet to see where I stand. I don't like check raising in that spot because most players are going to be chasing the flush and in my experience they're going to call anyway or shove (which is what happened in this hand).

If you're going to check raise, I'd raise it a little bigger especially when you have multiple players in the pot.

This hand was trouble to begin with. You have the second nut straight and a flush draw that could be counterfieted. Plus you're out of position. Add it all up and it spells trouble hand.

When I'm playing 2/5, I usually try and not play spec hands that can get me into trouble, even if I have the odds to play them, when I'm out of position. Which is probably the main point of this reply.

Play good positional poker against loose/aggro players especially if your BR isn't where you can safely play at those levels.

[braveboat27]

I agree with the previous poster. Play from position against looser players, especially with marginal hands...