There seems to be a consistent pattern of individuals (notice how I did not recognize them as players) playing hands that are generally unplayable. With my standard 3.5x raise with aks I got called by out if position patsy. Flop of a45 comes up. I raise their bet and get a call. Turn comes as an x. So does the river. Guy calls my raise on turn and river. At worst I'm thinking trips, but no raises? They flip over 23s for nut straight. Next hand, other table. Same thing other table. Get beat by 35o against ajs with top pair! Total loss of 10 bucks. Now, I understand that playing these micro micros you get fish, but I can not bump up since I am establishing my bankroll. Any advice? Or can anyone point me in the direction of a thread or book? Thanks for your input!


Ryan

First off, if you're playing 250xBB deep ($5 @ $2NL), you shouldn't be playing for stacks without the nuts or near nuts. I am talking: top set on an uncoordinated board, nut straight, nut flush, or a full house. I'll even play the under-full for stacks against typical $2NL players who will pay off with trips... even at 250xBB deep. Do not play for stacks this deep with top-two or any two pair or one pair hands. Well, against certain players... maybe but you have to have some strong history to suggest that they're shoving massive overbets on the flop with something two pair beats. Like if they will shove $5 into a $0.12 pot with an overpair or TPTK.

Raise and bet for value but be cautious with single pair hands that keep getting called. Be careful of not getting committed -- especially against short-stacks. And just play a tight and solid game.

Also, people at these limits that will call 2.5xBB will also call 7xBB. If they will call a small bet, they will typically call a larger bet. And they pay no attention to bet sizes. So like AKs, you might want to raise a bit smaller (they'll still fold if they were going to and they're calling twice that if they'd call that anyway) until you see how you improve on the flop. For big pairs, raise much larger (7-8xBB) and charge them to draw out on you. Yes, against observant players this will narrow your range (pay attention to see who the observant players are -- if there are any at your table). There are not many players paying attention at these limits. Just make your opening raises semi-random and they'll never even think to put you on certain hands just because you raised a certain way.

Also... limp more hands that play well multi-way for big pots. Limp a lot of suited connectors, for example. These table will often have 3-5 people seeing a flop and the odds that someone will want to play a big pot is high. So if you can get in and flop the nut straight or a flush, you can win a big pot often enough to make up for the cost of all the times you miss.

That's basically how I play $2NL and I do fairly well at it. Although my sample size isn't huge (4500 hands) I do fairly well at it... currently 12ptBB/100 but sometimes higher and lower depending on each session.

People play at these limits for one reason and one reason only: To donk off their chips. They are playing their because they are either drunk (or on some other form of drugs), are stupid in general, or have a bigger bankroll than playing at a $0.01/$0.02 game and want to have a little fun. They will play almost, if not, everything if not raised. So raising only shows you the people who are playing tight from the people who are trying to donk off their chips.

Don't criticize these players whatever you do. They are your friends. Yeah, you may be down $10 because of them, but in the long run, you will come out on top of these players.

The most you can do is either keep playing with them, knowing in the long run you will have profit according to the numbers, or move up higher limits. The higher the limits you play, the less and less donkeys you see.

Trust me, their are donks with $100k bankrolls because they are rich and think they can play poker. They lose it all and just refill because they can. So their is nothing really you can do except play with these players constantly, accept the fact that bad beats are part of the game, and keep playing.

have you tried playing tournaments? the play is a little more reasonable in at low level buy ins. they're a good way to build a bankroll.

Originally Posted by DeadBabySoup

have you tried playing tournaments? the play is a little more reasonable in at low level buy ins. they're a good way to build a bankroll.

Not even the $1 HORSE SnG's are that good (for finding good play wise), but they are WAY better than the $0.01/$0.02 ring games.

How about punishing them by raising something like 15x the BB. That might help. I mean really at .01/.02 a 4x BB raise is less than 10 cents. I think any two cards would be worth playing for 10 cents.

Maybe you should move up a level or two if you want your raises to mean something.

I agree with the given answers.

.01-02 is as low as it gets and normal rules of poker do not apply. At the bottom levels you are better off playing only premium hands. Raise more then 3-4xBB when in a hand. As stated you will get called in the micro games by multiple players even with an overbet. May as well build bigger pots and play from ahead.

Try to move up a ladder a few steps, you will find better games and more opportunities to increase your bankroll. Do not play above your means, but you should be able to move up a few notches from .01-.02.

Good Luck.

First off, moving up is not always a good answer. Adjusting to the mistakes your opponents are making is a better answer. $2NL is easily beatable and shouldn't be viewed as "too random to beat" because that is not the case. This is a great level to increase your bankroll because most of the mistakes are hugely profitable to you.

Your opponents are almost never making the mistake of "folding too often." At higher levels, your opponents will make that mistake more often. That's the most popular kind of mistake because everyone likes to win with the worst hand. That's why people want to move up. They want to be able to bluff people off hands. You can bluff people off hands at $2NL but it's extremely difficult and has a low chance of success. So, you can't use the "folding too often" mistake to make a profit. But that is great! Folding too much is profitable for you but it's not the most profitable mistake.

The more profitable mistakes come from over-valuing their hands. They do this by "betting too much" and/or "calling too much." They build pots that are too big for what their hands are worth and they call bets that can't return the value they need for the chance they are taking. These are hugely profitable for the aware player to take advantage of. You will be folding a lot when people bet more than they should with hands that are weaker than yours (and you can't possibly call because you're not making the mistake of over-valuing your own hands) but when you have a real hand, they will pay you off way more than they should.

Basically, you personally don't build big pots without big hands. And you don't play big pots without big hands. But when you have a big hand or a potentially big hand, you build and play those big pots. Winning couple big pots in a session is more than enough to consistently crush the game even if you're getting drawn out on every so often.

Originally Posted by frob23

The more profitable mistakes come from over-valuing their hand.

that is completely true, one reason why these levels are so profitable is that they can never fold AK, AQ, 10s, jacks pre flop, and they can never fold top pair for example, they always shove, this is where you can crush the level just by having the nuts against there good hand. I agree with what people have replied. I am currently playing at these stakes trying to build my bankroll, but so far its been good. yes, youll get the constant bad beat, yesterday someone shoved me for 3 dollars with 4 2 when I had Aces and the flop came 4 2 2 lol, but you have to remember to Play alot!!! , and always get in with the best of it. Bad beats will happen, but in the long run, the luck factor diminishes and you will get profit.