Stop n Go Strategy

[C8H10N4O2]

I recently read about stop n go strategy. Can anyone fill me in on the details. So far, the only thing I really understand about it, is you use it while on the short stack with small pocket pairs. You play the hand by not going all in pre-flop, but by going all in after the flop no matter what hits. I'd just like to fully read on the strategy, but I was unable to find any decent resources that went into the full details of this strategy.

[travz21]

I've heard of this strategy as well and it's beyond laughable if you aren't just trying to give away your chips on purpose.

Say you have 10bb's (short stacked) and you decide to limp with that small pocket pair (or anything for that matter), you're just giving other limpers a very cheap chance to bust you if you're going to push the flop no matter what hits.

I understand that if you're going against a single opponent, they're going to miss 2/3rds of the time, but you're not winning enough from the times they miss to make it justifiable for the amount you lose when they hit. Plus, it's just a very passive way to play pf and it lets in too many average hands to try and bust you.

You'd be better off shoving pf, or raising 2.5x-3x the bb from position if you don't have a solid hand and playing the hand in position to give you a better chance to get value out of your hand or steal if you miss.

[crap golfer]

Please don't listen to Travz, the stop and go strategy can be a very important tool in your arsenal and when used correctly can work wonders. I copied this from a strategy site because I'm too lazy to type it out myself....
The stop and go play involves you calling your opponent’s preflop raise with the intention of moving all in on the flop, rather than pushing all-in over the top when facing the preflop raise from your opponent.

By calling the bet on the flop, you have the opportunity to make your opponent fold on the flop by pushing the remainder of your chips in then, because your opponent will now have to call your flop bet to see two more cards instead of the opportunity to see five by calling an all-in preflop. This reduces the odds your opponent has to call, and so they will have to think hard about whether they want to continue if they haven’t improved their hand, and 60% of the time they won’t.

[travz21]

Come on, Crap Golfer. I hope you're better at golf than you are at giving crap reasoning for a flawed play.

You didn't even think about what I said, or else you wouldn't have posted that disgusting explanation.

The only time it makes sense (makes sense, still a bad play), is when you think you're behind pf and you want to try and steal from your opponent on the flop. If you're entering the pot willingly when you're behind, you're not going to be a good player, plain and simple. If you think you're ahead and you're short stacked, you push. I'm glad a lot of people practice this style though.

[crap golfer]

Daniel Negraneau a respected top professional explains it well here. Or you can listen to Travz if you want, because he has millions of dollars in wins like this guy who clearly knows what he is talking about...

http://www4.vindy.com/content/entert...8148584650.php

[C8H10N4O2]

From the link provided, this play is used when a big stack raises enough where calling with any two cards is the correct play. It is not used in a limping situation, and it is not used against more than one opponent. Your argument travz21 does not take into consideration the actual technique that is being described.

[BONSA7]

http://www.rakeback.com/ scroll down to "articles"

[C8H10N4O2]

http://www.rakeback.com/ scroll down to "articles"

Lol, I never make it that far down on the homepage.

[phosphorescence]

the stop and go is definitely a move worth using, though i only use it sparingly.

i only use it when i'm so short stacked that i need to make a move, but know that my opponent will have odds to call if i 3bet pre flop. by using the stop and go you give yourself a chance to win the pot with the worst hand.

you should only do this move out of position (usually in the blinds)

most donks will usually insta-call on flop no matter what they have (because you're usually doing this really short stacked), but against a tighter player it will work better.

you don't just have to do this with small pairs, you can do it with rags too. if you do it with small pairs obv. don't shove flop if you hit a set (in general).

[Brooklynbum]

The best way to use the stop n go IMO is when you raise PF OOP, then you shove on the flop. Limping in then shoving isn't going to work period. Even min raising (which I hate) to set up the stop n go is much better than limping in to set up the move.

The reason why you raise to set up this move is because you need to represent some sort of hand and when you get called (most likely by a person with a small pair or two face cards let's say) and the flop comes out ragged you push.

Limping into a pot then utilzing the stop n go is not good strategy. You have to be raising PF before you stop n go.

Another thing, if you're short stacked you're better off pushing PF rather than thinking that you're going to use the stop n go to steal a pot on the flop.

IMO, the stop n go is best utilized when you're medium stacked and you're facing another medium stack, not short stacked as it won't work as effectively (as you're much better off pushing when you're short stacked). If you're facing a short stack, the move gets tricky b/c if you're raising PF and the shortie just smooth calls then that should send off warning bells (think about it - why would a short stack just smooth call a raise and not push?).

Additionally, this won't work against a tight/passive, weak/tight player, a trappy type of player and calling stations because they may hold a monster and still elect to call rather than re-raise you PF with AK, AQ or a decent PP because they're too scared to push back (I've seen this hundreds of times - you know the type of player I mean). With these types of players I'd just bet 1/2 the pot on the flop and go from there.

Lastly, this is more of a tournament strategy rather than a ring game strategy IMO. The reason why is that the risk reward on this move is better in a tournament setting where chips are too valuable to risk calling with a marginal hand.

If you're playing cash games, then I would advocate using the stop n go only if you're playing the short stack style.

The stop n go as a general strategy is situational, as it works in cetain situations when you have a fairly high fold equity working for you.

Hope this helps.

[Brooklynbum]

The only time it makes sense (makes sense, still a bad play), is when you think you're behind pf and you want to try and steal from your opponent on the flop. If you're entering the pot willingly when you're behind, you're not going to be a good player, plain and simple. If you think you're ahead and you're short stacked, you push. I'm glad a lot of people practice this style though.

No offense Trav, but that l think this logic is a bit flawed.

You don't have to behind or ahead to utilize this strategy, you just have to have a sense of what you're opponent is holding. What you're holding does not factor into the equation.

Secondly, if you're entering a pot willingly by raising when you're behind PF you can still set up the sit n go because you're representing a strong hand and you can be fairly sure that if the villain is calling they must have something along the lines of small to mid PP, two face cards or at least a weak Ace (suited of course) because if they had anything stronger you should re-pop you (that is if they're a sold player). Limping in to set up the stop n go is useless for the most part for obvious reasons

Lastly, this is used as a bluff technique more than anything. You have to have enough chips for fold equity or be facing a semi-short stack in order for this to work. Again if you're short stacked you should be pushing PF rather than thinking about using the stop n go.

[travz21]

I didn't fully know what the stop n go style was. I thought it involved limping and pushing. I was mistaken.

I still don't think it's a good play in that article Negreanu wrote. If you're that severely short stacked, why wouldn't you want to get full value out of that hand you're ahead in rather than surviving easier and getting like half your value? I think the over-double up would be more profitable even if you get knocked out more often.

[DeadBabySoup]

The best way to use the stop n go IMO is when you raise PF OOP, then you shove on the flop. Limping in then shoving isn't going to work period. Even min raising (which I hate) to set up the stop n go is much better than limping in to set up the move.

That's not stop n go. Stop n go is just calling a preflop raise, rather shoving all in (stop). Then shoving all in after the flop no matter what hits (go).

[liladypokerpro]

lol I'm glad I read the last few posts after that one because I was about to say the same thing as Mr.Soup The "stop" is basically the "stop" of the action...so calling stops the action whereas raising would continue the action on to the next player...and the "go" is the all in shove on the flop...so if you're raising at all before the flop, then you're not "stopping" anything, so it wouldn't be this particular strategy. The best way to remember it is to say "stop-the action preflop n go-all in on the flop"

[Brooklynbum]

You're right about the call PF then shove on the flop OOP. I guess I'm talking about something else.

I stand corrected.

I'lll serve myself some humble pie now.