When To Post Big Blind At A NewTable

[GainerRakeback]

Here's when I post the BB when I sit down in an online cash game table. There are actually three (3) choices. You can:

(1) Immedialtely post the BB and play.
(2) You can wait to be the natural BB (i.e when the BB comes around to you), or
(3) Sit out and wait for the button to pass and post (sitting in the "cutoff" seat - one to right of dealer). [It got its name because in live games where players actually deal, the dealer always has the player to his right cut the cards - hence cutoff seat.]

I recommend the third choice. First, posting the BB right away isn't horrible, but with 2.5 BBs in the pot you're inviting someone to raise and try to steal. And typically you get crap and have to fold anyway. If you wait to be the natural BB, then you have to post the BB and SB your first two hands and about 90+% of the time, being so badly out of position, you fold both anyway, wasting the money.

By waiting for the button to pass and posting in the Cutoff seat, you get the benefit of seeing what the majority of the table does and then decide to fold to a raise, check or raise yourself. And for the rest of the hand you're in the 2nd best position at the table (and may be the best if the dealer folded). And for the next few hands, you're in good position. That's really important at a new table where you don't know the styles of any players. You want to see several hands of play first. Also, I just hate posting the BB and SB in succession and virtually always folding them. It seems like such a waste of money.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be interested...

[When I play live ($1/$2), I post right away or may be wait one hand if the BB is next. Why different? That's because in live play the max buy-in (which I always recommend) is usually $300 and waiting to post $2 seems really cheap and tight. That's not the image you want players to get when you first sit down. You gotta toss the two one dollar chips in like they're peanuts.]

[travz21]

Doing anything other than 2 is a waste of money. Rethink your logic, please.

And to your last paragraph, why wouldn't you want to have a cheap and tight image? You'll be able to win pots without going to showdown much easier. So unless you plan on hitting big hands every time you're in the pot (good luck), I would assume you'd rather not go to showdown every hand with a loose image.

[HeyKidMove]

Doing anything other than 2 is a waste of money. Rethink your logic, please.

I agree. I always wait until the BB comes around.

[GainerRakeback]

Doing anything other than 2 is a waste of money. Rethink your logic, please.

I dont see how waiting for cutoff and only posting one blind instead of two is a waste of money. Could you explain? Do you understand #3?

[HeyKidMove]

Anytime you post when it's not necessary is a waste of money. It's not like when you post in the cutoff that you're gaining anything. You still have to post your BB next time, and you're putting money in blind when you don't need to.

[GainerRakeback]

Anytime you post when it's not necessary is a waste of money. It's not like when you post in the cutoff that you're gaining anything. You still have to post your BB next time, and you're putting money in blind when you don't need to.

You have to post when you sit down, so you're not posting anything 'extra.' In fact you're saving money by not having to post the small blind too. Your way, you get to play three more hands (BB, SB and Button) but you're paying more. But playing in the blinds to me is a complete waste of money almost all the time so those two hands are a waste. You only gain one hand then.

And you do gain something else by positng in the Cutoff first: you gain position on the table and get to see several hands for free thereafter in position with new players.

Everyone is free to do it the way they want.

[travz21]

Yes, and you're free to waste your money. You didn't rethink your logic, obviously.

[frob23]

In certain games, especially live small limit ones like $1/$2NL, posting as soon as you sit down can be a +EV play from a table image perspective. It is the "standard" way of doing things and it gives you the image of just being there to play. You're like everyone else. The few times a player sits down and elects to wait for the BB to post, everyone notices. Suddenly, the table is serious. There is someone there who isn't just there to have fun and play.

And, depending on how long you have to wait, this image could solidify over several hands. And the game might nit up very fast because everyone is going to try and gamble less and play more serious poker. About the only time I will elect to wait in those games is if I would be posting the blind UTG. I will wait at that point because it's no big deal and I can pretend it's just me getting settled at the table.

I already know how the table is playing and have already been observing the players for several hands before I got seated. So an extra 3-4 hands of observation isn't going to add a whole lot to the information I have on how the table is playing.

[RiverstarsVictim]

As far as online goes I dont mind posting a blind from CO depending on how the table is playing. On a tight table I can often raise ATC's and take the blinds there and then (at least on 6 max). It gives me the chance to create a loose image for myself too which can benefit me later. I really dont think it's that horrible.

On a loose aggressive table I am more inclined to wait for the BB though.

[HeyKidMove]

I agree that when playing live it can be good for your image to post out of turn in the CO if you just sat down. But if you post in the CO, you're inviting people to raise just like stated in OP. Also, if you play one orbit, you're posting the BB twice and SB once, but if you wait until the BB you're only posting BB once and SB once. So you're putting in extra money blind, hence wasting money.

[iceveins0901]

I think in a live table, I agree that posting when you sit down can be positive for you, possibly meaning you are playing for fun, like most others said.

When I play online, I either will post the BB, or the CO if I cant post the BB until an entire round of play. Even the CO+1 is too close to the BB to not wait. You cannot take in the fact that you also have to pay the SB when you start off at the BB, it is rediculous, not wanting to post at the BB because of losing .5BB possibly in the SB, you are talking .5BB over the course of hundreds of hands in your session.

Plus if you pay that extra .5BB, you get 3 more hands that round, BB, SB, and Button, well worth it.

[thegrizz1111]

assuming a nine handed game and the blinds are 1 and 2.

If you post in the big blind, you see 9 hands for $3 against $3 of bling money when u are in the blind.

If you post in the cutoff you see 6 hands for $2 against 3 dollars of blind money.

price per hand is the same as is the blind money in the pot when you are in the blinds.

so if it is a 9 handed game it is the same doesnt matter if u post in the co or bb. if it is less then 9 handed u should post in the big bling. if it is 10 handed you should post in the cutoff

[braveboat27]

Lots of good opinions. Honestly, when playing on-line, I'll wait for the BB. I'm usually still getting myself ready to play, and I like to see the action for a few hands, too.

In B&M, I usually post just to be polite and to fit in...

[phaul]

assuming a nine handed game and the blinds are 1 and 2.

If you post in the big blind, you see 9 hands for $3 against $3 of bling money when u are in the blind.

If you post in the cutoff you see 6 hands for $2 against 3 dollars of blind money.

price per hand is the same as is the blind money in the pot when you are in the blinds.

so if it is a 9 handed game it is the same doesnt matter if u post in the co or bb. if it is less then 9 handed u should post in the big bling. if it is 10 handed you should post in the cutoff

This is bang on, pretty much exactly what I was gonna post. Although why would you EVER play 10-handed????

[frob23]

This is bang on, pretty much exactly what I was gonna post. Although why would you EVER play 10-handed????

Many live full rings games play 10 handed in this area. So you won't really have a choice there. Actually, live around here you basically only have 10 handed for Hold'em as your option. There aren't any live short-handed tables.

[emoneypitt]

The vast majority of the time, I play 6-handed. If I can get a full 3 hands before having to post BB again, I'll do #3 otherwise it's #2.

[dschill]

Great advice here..Im not the greatest poker player in the world but theres so much to learn from this forum!

[yajschko]

if you guys are quarelling about whether to post the blinds or not then i think that poker is just not the game for you.

[EliminateU]

Doing anything other than 2 is a waste of money. Rethink your logic, please.

And to your last paragraph, why wouldn't you want to have a cheap and tight image? You'll be able to win pots without going to showdown much easier. So unless you plan on hitting big hands every time you're in the pot (good luck), I would assume you'd rather not go to showdown every hand with a loose image.

Actually he raises some good points. I have often posted in cut-off since it is NOT a waste of money. Here is my thinking (opinion):

Using $1/$2 blinds for example. If you post BB in natural BB spot you "purchase" 9 hands (at a full table) for $3. $3/9 = $0.333333 per hand.

If you post in cut-off you are only "purchasing" 6 hands, but paying only $2. $2/6 = $0.3333 per hand. So the "cost" is IDENTICAL, and the superior position seems to give you added value.

Obviously this is just opinion, but his points are valid.

[RAW_FORCE]

To prove how much of a losing strategy this is anybody can look at their positional stats in PT/HEM.

I will use some hands from my database in an example. Drawing from 153,559 hands of NL100:

95,517 hands did not occur on BTN/SB/BB.

Amount won without blind = 15,272.45bb

Assuming that I get, on average 5.5 hands that arent on BTN/SB/BB each orbit (this is reasonable) I will have posted the BB 17,367 times.

17,367 - 15272 = -2,095bb

Even assuming 6 hands on average, which is completely unsustainable as people will get up mid orbit a lot of the time I would have posted 15,920bb for a loss of 648bb.

Although it isn't extremely pertinent to this argument you should also be losing less than a small blind for every BTN/SB/BB sequence you play, meaning you are gaining extra value from playing those 3 hands instead of only the other 6 in each 9 hand orbit.

153k hands is not a large enough amount for any of this to be 100% conclusive but I would be very surprised if the final result is anything different. However, players with winrates 3ptbb/100 and above can probably show a profit posting from the cutoff since they are crushing but this is a vastly small percentage of full ring players above micro stakes.