Roi?

[ericintexas]

What exactly does it stand for?? Mine is 18% after 309 sit and goes. Is that good bad avg or what

[frob23]

ROI is your percentage return on investment. With an 18% ROI... you get $1.18 back for each $1 you play.

So if you're playing $10+$1 sit and goes, you average a $12.98 return. Now if you're talking the average ROI, from sharkscope, that gets a little more complicated because it takes all your different levels into effect. It's possible to have a +15% ROI on sharkscope and a -$50 net profit. Believe me... it's what I'm currently showing. That's because I decided to play a bunch of games above my normal limit when drunk. I lost almost all of them... and threw my profits away. But since, most of the time, I am a winning player (just at lower limits) my average ROI is still positive.

As for an 18%... is it bad, fair, or good? That really depends on the levels you're playing. If you are playing $55 sit and gos... that's pretty good. If you're playing $200+ sit and gos... it's fantastic. If you're playing $2 sit and goes... it's just ok. Although some people will apparently argue that I have unrealistic expectations for the micro games because I am not happy with my low teens ROI in them.

[Brooklynbum]

Nice reply Frob. Pretty much nailed the explanation.

My only comment would be don't get fixated on your ROI%. I know that some people say that you need x% in order to be successful player at a particular SNG level.

I'm not sure about that, I would say if you're a winning player that's all that matters. Even if you have a 5% ROI that is still good as it probably beats 90% of the players out there.

Sure you want a higher ROI but if you're not losing that counts also. I would also like to add that if you're not getting a 20-25% ROI at the micro levels ($5 and below) then you shouldn't think about moving up.

Additionally, as you move in stakes your ROI should come down as you're facing better players every time you move up a level.

So if you're running 30% after 100 games at the $5.50 games you've made a profit of $165. Pretty sweet.

Then you move up to the $10+1 games and your ROI goes down to 20% you've still made a profit of $200 (more than the 5+.50 levels).


Hope this makes sense to you.

[ericintexas]

Thanks for the help guys. I only play turbos so dont know if that matters at all.. I would think there are more swings in them because of the luck factor when blinds increase.
I have been playing the 6.50 turbos on stars .

[frob23]

Thanks for the help guys. I only play turbos so dont know if that matters at all.. I would think there are more swings in them because of the luck factor when blinds increase.
I have been playing the 6.50 turbos on stars .

I might think your ROI could be a few percentage points lower if you're playing only turbos but it might just mean it takes more games to get a real idea of where your ROI is. I tend to play a mixture of both so I can't say for sure. If you're consistently beating the turbos with an 18% ROI at that level, you're doing pretty good.

[phosphorescence]

how do the different types of games affect the ROI you can attain?

for example, i play mainly 90-man MTT SnGs, and have an average roi of ~50% over 1.1k games. if i was playing HU or 9-man SnGs would this roi be unattainable?

obviously if you played one MTT and won it, you could have a cagillion% roi, but over a big enough sample should all the game types have your same 'true roi'? or should you generally have a bigger roi the more players in your tourneys?

one of the best HU SnG players in the world, livb112, has an roi of about 5%, but i'm sure some of the best MTTers have larger rois than this. is this just because they haven't played enough games to account for variance? roi confuses me!

[frob23]

On the site where I typically play MTTs and not Sit and Goes, my average ROI is 46%. So yes, playing in MTTs as opposed to Single Table Tournaments will change the reasonable range for your ROI. How much it changes it depends on how well you play and how often you make it deep.

When it comes to MTTs, I have seen a player talk about tracking his MTT returns as "buy-ins/MTT" and not ROI. This is because a big win could easily put you over 100% ROI for a while. Of course, the numbers are identical but you're removing the percentage concept because you're really looking to have 40% and up ROIs.

So your average return would be ~.5 buy-ins of profit per tournament. I am not sure what the upper limit is but so long as it's positive and your happy with it, I wouldn't worry about it. The same person who introduced the concept of buy-ins/tournament mentions that he's not happy with a .5 buy-in return per tournament. But one big win will often fix a mediocre win-rate.

[Morton]

One thing that i noticed while playing MTTs on multiple sites, is that my ROI was different on different sites with the same buy-ins/MTT. I did not understand what it meant?
Can you tell about it if you know something?