Badluck turns good

[Roboligraphy]

My dog pissed on the floor and as I was cleaning it up, I heard *beep* *beep*, fortunately for me I did not make it back to the computer in time. This is the result of the hand

Seat 6: oconnor8 (2210 in chips)
oconnor8: posts small blind 75
wulveryn: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roboligraphy [4h 4s]
aljaru: raises 150 to 300
nickt2020: folds
oconnor8 said, "nc"
Roboligraphy has timed out
Roboligraphy: folds
Roboligraphy is sitting out
boeuf05: calls 300
oconnor8: calls 225
Roboligraphy has returned
wulveryn: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [Ts Qd 4c]
oconnor8: bets 1910 and is all-in
wulveryn: calls 1910
aljaru: folds
boeuf05: raises 1990 to 3900
wulveryn: raises 1030 to 4930 and is all-in
boeuf05: calls 1030
*** TURN *** [Ts Qd 4c] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [Ts Qd 4c 7s] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
wulveryn: shows [3s Qs] (a pair of Queens)
boeuf05: shows [Td Tc] (three of a kind, Tens)
boeuf05 collected 6040 from side pot
oconnor8: shows [Kc Qc] (a pair of Queens)
boeuf05 collected 6930 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12970 Main pot 6930. Side pot 6040. | Rake 0
Board [Ts Qd 4c 7s Ad]
Seat 1: wulveryn (big blind) showed [3s Qs] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: aljaru folded on the Flop
Seat 3: nickt2020 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Roboligraphy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: boeuf05 (button) showed [Td Tc] and won (12970) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 6: oconnor8 (small blind) showed [Kc Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens

[C8H10N4O2]

Nice. Anytime you somehow avoid set over set it's a good day.

[Jonathank]

you do realize that on most sites the cards are constantly shuffled and if you had made it back to you computer the results would most likely have been different. for instance you may have flopped quads.

[C8H10N4O2]

From my understanding, that shuffling method is mainly found on full tilt poker... is this not accurate?

[HeyKidMove]

From my understanding, that shuffling method is mainly found on full tilt poker... is this not accurate?

I thought the continuous shuffle was used on just about every site as an extra prevention against cheating.

[C8H10N4O2]

I don't see anything about a continuous shuffle on the poker stars site...
"SHUFFLE

"Anyone who considers arithmetic methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin." - John von Neumann, 1951

We understand that a use of a fair and unpredictable shuffle algorithm is critical to our software. To ensure this and avoid major problems described in [2], we are using two independent sources of truly random data:

* user input, including summary of mouse movements and events timing, collected from client software
* true hardware random number generator developed by Intel [3], which uses thermal noise as an entropy source

Each of these sources itself generates enough entropy to ensure a fair and unpredictable shuffle.
Shuffle Highlights:

* A deck of 52 cards can be shuffled in 52! ways. 52! is about 2^225 (to be precise, 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,404,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000 ways). We use 249 random bits from both entropy sources (user input and thermal noise) to achieve an even and unpredictable statistical distribution.
* Furthermore, we apply conservative rules to enforce the required degree of randomness; for instance, if user input does not generate required amount of entropy, we do not start the next hand until we obtain the required amount of entropy from Intel RNG.
* We use the SHA-1 cryptographic hash algorithm to mix the entropy gathered from both sources to provide an extra level of security
* We also maintain a SHA-1-based pseudo-random generator to provide even more security and protection from user data attacks
* To convert random bit stream to random numbers within a required range without bias, we use a simple and reliable algorithm. For example, if we need a random number in the range 0-25:
o we take 5 random bits and convert them to a random number 0-31
o if this number is greater than 25 we just discard all 5 bits and repeat the process
* This method is not affected by biases related to modulus operation for generation of random numbers that are not 2n, n = 1,2,..
* To perform an actual shuffle, we use another simple and reliable algorithm:
o first we draw a random card from the original deck (1 of 52) and place it in a new deck - now original deck contains 51 cards and the new deck contains 1 card
o then we draw another random card from the original deck (1 of 51) and place it on top of the new deck - now original deck contains 50 cards and the new deck contains 2 cards
o we repeat the process until all cards have moved from the original deck to the new deck
* This algorithm does not suffer from "Bad Distribution Of Shuffles" described in [2]"

I don't understand all of the above however lol.

[HeyKidMove]

* user input, including summary of mouse movements and events timing, collected from client software

This would suggest that if he would have called the cards would be different because the event timing would have been different, and there would have been different mouse movements.

[C8H10N4O2]

Not necessarily. This says the deck is shuffled, but no where does it say continulously shuffled. The shuffling is based on the heat/mouse movement aligorithms, but no where does it say this occurs throughout the entire hand. The entire description of everything is "shuffle" but never "continuous shuffle."
I've read other places as well that indicate that PS does not employ a continuous shuffle. The event timing occured *PRIOR* to the dealing of the cards as it makes mention that if there is not a sufficient amount of random data obtained, pokerstars will pause until it is aqcuired.

"* Furthermore, we apply conservative rules to enforce the required degree of randomness; for instance, if user input does not generate required amount of entropy, we do not start the next hand until we obtain the required amount of entropy from Intel RNG."

So the next hand cannot start until the required amount of entropy has been obtained... which indicates that the measurements occur before the hand occurs. Why would it matter "prior" to the hand starting if a continuous shuffle could have occured, as it could just pause during the shuffle until sufficient data were obtained?

[Jonathank]

no poker stars is the exception. almost all others are shuffled.

[Jonathank]

but there is no rakeback.com/">rake back on PS

[HeyKidMove]

Not necessarily. This says the deck is shuffled, but no where does it say continulously shuffled. The shuffling is based on the heat/mouse movement aligorithms, but no where does it say this occurs throughout the entire hand. The entire description of everything is "shuffle" but never "continuous shuffle."
I've read other places as well that indicate that PS does not employ a continuous shuffle. The event timing occured *PRIOR* to the dealing of the cards as it makes mention that if there is not a sufficient amount of random data obtained, pokerstars will pause until it is aqcuired.

"* Furthermore, we apply conservative rules to enforce the required degree of randomness; for instance, if user input does not generate required amount of entropy, we do not start the next hand until we obtain the required amount of entropy from Intel RNG."

So the next hand cannot start until the required amount of entropy has been obtained... which indicates that the measurements occur before the hand occurs. Why would it matter "prior" to the hand starting if a continuous shuffle could have occured, as it could just pause during the shuffle until sufficient data were obtained?

Touche. I was just assuming it was throughout the entire hand.

[C8H10N4O2]

no poker stars is the exception. almost all others are shuffled.

And this answers my dilemma. PS is the exception, not FT. I wasn't sure which way it was, but I was pretty sure one of them was an exception.
Fun times.