When to "add on"?

[Tuomas]

Hi,
I was at the local casino today playing fairly low buyin Pot Limit Omaha Rebuy tournament. I was doing pretty well after re-buying once in the beginning. By the end of the re-buy period I was the chipleader with 11 times the starting stack. At the end of the period there was the add-on possibility. And this is what got me thinking.

How do you figure out if adding-on is +ev for you? I didn't add-on since I figured it this way:

By paying extra 30% of the money I had invested by this point I would have got only 17% addition to my stack.

ie.
Buy-in = 200+20 = 1000 chips
Double rebuy = 400 = 2000 more chips
Possible double add-on = 200 = 2000 more chips

At the time I had 11550 chips. By paying the extra 200 I would've had 13550 chips.

How does my stack's relation to the average stack (here I think it was 5000 or so) come into the equation?

How do you guys figure this?

[DeadBabySoup]

i guess it's subjective. but i'd say it only makes sense when you're getting equal value for your investment. or if you're short stacked and desperate.

but on a related note, i played a tournament here a few times that had re-buys and add ons. there are usually around 90 players. i cashed 3 out of 5 times. but the payout seemed lower than it should have been. it was a $25 buy in. $10 add on to start. another $10 add on after an hour. unlimited re-buys the first hour. people were getting knocked out and re-buying like crazy. so i did the math and figured out that the add ons and re-buys were going to the dealers. which meant each of them were probably taking home more than the top prize. it was an extremely soft game. nothing but drunk tourists. but i quit playing it on general principle.

[phaul]

If we assume you're buying the extra chips for the same price, then in raw terms it's slightly -EV because of ICM considerations (every chip gained is worth less than the previous ones). However, you're also increasing your buyin, so assuming you're not a breakeven player then it's probably +$EV to add on because of the superior way you will use those extra chips.

However, in the case you gave, the add on is at half price, so it'd be incredibly foolish not to.

By paying extra 30% of the money I had invested by this point I would have got only 17% addition to my stack.

ie.
Buy-in = 200+20 = 1000 chips
Double rebuy = 400 = 2000 more chips
Possible double add-on = 200 = 2000 more chips

At the time I had 11550 chips. By paying the extra 200 I would've had 13550 chips.

How does my stack's relation to the average stack (here I think it was 5000 or so) come into the equation?

This is the wrong way of looking at it. Ignore ICM because it's gonna overcomplicate a simple point. There are some other approximations but their effect is negligible. Your stack is now worth 11550/5 = $2310. If no-one else adds on and you do then your stack is now worth 13550/5 = $2710 or $400 more than before. So you effectively just bought $400 for $200!

Of course, the more people that add on the less each chip is worth (because they're also buying chips at cut-price), but by adding on at cut-price you're still gonna be buying money.

[gamer4life27]

I have always thought of it as if I am chip leader (or amongst them in a MTT), then I won't add-on. Nor will I add-on if I am short stacked. Average is the only time I will add-on because you want to stay with the others in chips.

If you are chip leader, why add-on when all you are doing is adding a very small percentage to your stack (like you pointed out)? Let others pay more to try and have a chance at catching you in the tournament. The re-buy period is over, so people will not be playing so maniacly, and will be forced to chase you as the chip leader. You have gained a stack, so your goal now is to maintain this stack.

When you are the short stack, you may have anywhere between 5-10 BB left. Why add-on when you are only going to either have a few more BB's, or just double your stack, yet you are still short stack against the rest of the table? Save that extra buy-in for another tournament and do the same thing you were going to do as when you would have added-on, and that is play tight and shove your chips in.

And last of all, the only time I would add-on in a tournament is when I am about average in chips. Why? Simple, because everyone else is going to do it. If everyone but you adds-on and you don't, then they all of a sudden have a chip advantage on you and that many more BB's, and that much more gamble in them than you do.

Bty, did you re-buy, or double re-buy for your one re-buy? And what were the blinds? Just out of curiosity. Plus, that is how I figure when I should re-buy/add-on.

I remember reading this on one of FTP's tips from the pro's, but I can't find the add-on one. I found this one, that I think might have been the one I read and it looks close enough.

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip/MichaelGracz/173

[phosphorescence]

as a general rule always add-on.

[DeadBabySoup]

a few friends want to play a tournament, so last night i checked online to see what's out there. everything in vegas under a $50 buy in has add ons. most have re-buys too. when you click on the details, you see that all of the add ons go to the dealers. some places the re-buys go to the dealers too. some go into the pot. so in the end, you could be paying half or more of your buy in to the house one way or the other. personally, i'd rather play a higher buy in tourney with no re-buys and no add ons. or at the very least, a cheap add on. i don't mind throwing a little cash to the dealers. but the way some of these are structured, they're taking home something like $500-$1,000 a night.