Weird donk bets at $4NL and $10NL

[frob23]

I have been seeing the following a lot recently. I have probably run into it about 6-7 times in the last week or so. It always seems to be from a player that isn't too fishy at the table. The following is an example hand from my recent session.

0: MP1: 99.5xBB
1: Hero: 116.25xBB
2: MP3: 25xBB
3: CO: 124.25xBB
4: Button: 73.5xBB
5: SB: 105xBB
6: BB: 89xBB
7: UTG: 62.25xBB
8: UTG+1: 21.75xBB

Saw Flop

Dealt: Q Q

SB posts 0.5xBB, BB posts 1xBB, 3 folds, Hero raises to 4xBB, 2 folds, SB calls 3.5xBB, 1 fold.

FLOP: 9 A 5 (Pot: 9xBB)

SB bets 4.5xBB, Hero raises to 13.5xBB, 1 fold.


This is becoming my default reaction to these sorts of donk bets into me. I am trying to figure out what is going on. I don't think it is them working on exploiting a weakness in my game. I do not continuation bet very much at these limits -- that is true. I don't think I am folding too often on the flop when I have something and someone bets out like this, especially when we take the flop heads up. So I don't know if they are trying to exploit a weakness in my play. I think I need to go back and review my sessions and look at every hand where I raise preflop and see how I play it.

What do you think the SB is doing in this hand? If he betting an A-x type hand to see if his kicker might be good or if he might have the best hand? A lot of people at these limits will raise with KQ and other hands like that pre-flop so he might think he's preventing a bluff from those hands by leading out.

Maybe he is bluffing himself? And he's hoping that I am worried about the Ace and will just go away. I think that is likely and is probably better than betting a weak Ace because the weak Ace has some showdown value if I want to keep the pot small.

It might be a semi-bluff. He could be betting a couple of s and thinking I will probably call him and that will be cheaper than what I am likely to bet.

In one case, I did get called by a person when I made this sort of raise. But the flop was a lot more coordinated and he had middle pair (I had AK and hit my Ace). That was a pure donk bet and I don't know if it counts as much as the others.

Anyway, I am seeing this a lot lately. Are there any ideas as to what is going on? Do you think they're exploiting a predictable behavior I might have from hands where I raise and completely miss? Or do you think it is a bad bluff or value bet?

I've almost become habituated to raising these sorts of bets on the flop if I have any sort of hand. I'll fold if reraised and keep the pot small if called but I almost never am. In almost every case they bettor just goes away when I raise. Is this a bad and dangerous habit to be sliding into? Am I running hot right now and happen to be running into bluffs more often than I should and in a more balanced game will I end up losing money by raising when they donk bet an over-card to my pair?

I'm seriously confused. This is a fairly new observation for me. I am used to donk bettors who will call the raise most of the time and then check down (or check/call down). I am not used to the donk-bet/fold behavior on the flop.

[csnmf]

On that flop texture most of the time he won't have anything. On an A high flop the original preflop raiser (you) is going to c-bet 100% of the time to represent the ace so if he had a strong hand why donk out, check/raise is much better as when you c-bet with air he can pick up your c-bet and when you have the ace most of the players at that limit are calling at least the check raise.

For that reason it's ok to raise these donk bets with air on these textures. If it was 789 two suits then you cant raise these donk bets with air unless you are willing to fire multiple barrels and generally spew as when they donk they have some kind of pair, draw or combo draw they don't want to fold.

[frecklers]

On that flop texture most of the time he won't have anything. On an A high flop the original preflop raiser (you) is going to c-bet 100% of the time to represent the ace so if he had a strong hand why donk out, check/raise is much better as when you c-bet with air he can pick up your c-bet and when you have the ace most of the players at that limit are calling at least the check raise.

For that reason it's ok to raise these donk bets with air on these textures. If it was 789 two suits then you cant raise these donk bets with air unless you are willing to fire multiple barrels and generally spew as when they donk they have some kind of pair, draw or combo draw they don't want to fold.

I'm donking in these situations real strong a whole lot of the time. Easily as often as opting to C/R and when I donk I am likely to bet pretty big. I find C/R'ing seems to induce too much suspicion and therefore rarely maximises my profit.

On this sort of board I might even shove All In for 25 - 30BB with 2 pair or a set with the expectation that AK, AQ, AJ and even KK QQ often call........ and they do a whole lot of the time as they have very little information to go on.

I would agree though that as a default I would assume weakness rather than strength from the bet.



Is this one particular individual or several different players FROB?

As obviously one player you can call rather than RR his bet and try to check down to find out for later use!! If a range of players then you need to review the standard approach you are adopting and see if it is +EV... If it is then keep doing it and keep reviewing it.