Full Tilt Poker Academy. Good idea or a waste of time?

[pokerbucket]

So what do you guys think about the full tilt academy? Have you done any of the challenges?

So far I don't think the challenges have improved my game. To be honest the only reason why I tried it was to get free points. Although I must say that some of the videos on the academy site were useful to watch. I like the ones where you can watch the pros play live and they give commentary while they are playing. I don't think this will revolutionize online poker strategy but I think the videos will for sure help players that are just starting off.

Why I don't like some of the challenges:
The way the challenges are set up they sometimes force you to do weird things that you normally might not do. For example: In Aaron Bartley's challenge sitngo by the numbers one of the tasks is to Fold A-J, A-T, A-9, K-Q, or K-J in early position 2 times while 7 or more players remain in a 9-handed S&G. As we all know there are many different styles in poker and you can win playing in different ways. Normally I would never fold AJ in the spot listed above but hey that is me. Sometimes I found my self losing more $ while I was following the rules of the challenge just to TRY TO WIN THE CHALLENGE LOL.

Why I like the challenges:
The thing I like about the challenges is that they do force you to play differently. I think this can be good because it will show you that you don't know everything and you may learn something new. I think it is always important to keep learning and evolving but I also think it is important to keep doing what you are doing if it is working.

http://academy.fulltiltpoker.com

[C8H10N4O2]

Lol, since I just started playing at Tilt regularly, I enrolled in a challenge. I forgot about it, went back to it, and I had already completed everything in the challenge. It made me laugh. I enrolled in the SnG one you are talking about above, but I haven't played any sng's since I enrolled it in since I've been focusing on cash games. I don't know how I feel about it, but it feels like it might be a waste of time. Keep us updated with how it goes for you, especially if you find it really valuable at some point. good luck

[frob23]

I never knew about this before and have been playing with it. I started the bankroll challenge and promptly lost about 20% of my bankroll. LMAO, a good example of why playing within it is important but perhaps a bit of a downer. I moved on to the NL cash games one and was done with that in like an hour. I really hate CAP NL though. I think it ruins the game. I don't think it's a bad idea if the cap is 200xBB+ but having a cap of 30xBB is just stupid. A cap exists to keep players from going completely busto in one hand, not to limit the options of players to a handful like the low cap does.

I am now doing the pre-flop play one. And I am determined to stick it out. Even though it is much tighter than I normally play. I've had to strip most of my hands out because they're played for a limp behind a bunch of limpers. Reopening the pot wouldn't make them profitable in the spots I play them.

There are also things they recommend that I don't like, such at the minraise and the 2.5xBB raise. At $2NL, where I am playing, that is just inviting a big pot with hands like QQ and JJ. I'll play it out and see how it works though . It's super nitty so it's really easy to play. I almost feel like a bot. LOL

It is sad that some of the super-value hands are not available to me here. At these levels, I am almost always sure to win a big pot if I hit with my odd hands like the suited one gappers. But they aren't available to me now, except in the blinds which I rarely defend in full ring because those hands aren't profitable there.

I'll play this out and give my full opinion later.

[frob23]

I played for a little over 4 hours this morning. I obviously need a life. I managed to complete the entire pre-flop challenge (which I started this morning) in under 644 hands. I don't know exactly how many it took to complete it all because there is a long delay between when you do something and when you get credit for it. I stopped when I was sure I had completed it all. And then gave it like an hour to get the very last thing accounted for.

It wasn't bad... it was really boring and basic poker. I didn't get a whole lot of good cards. It actually took me longer to raise 3 times in middle position with the hands they required than it took to play 500 hands without calling pre-flop because I just wasn't getting any of those hands when I was in middle position. I did run about 9.1ptBB/100 for the session. So it wasn't as bad as it felt. I really thought I was winning at a much slower rate than that. Most of my profits came from people stupidly playing for stacks when I had a big pair pre-flop. And one poor shlub who called my 3-bet with T-T (I had J-J) and the flop came 4-T-J. I can't blame him for losing his 75xbb stack in that spot.

I did lose a couple biggish pots... when I ran Q-Q into 8-8 for 60xbb pre-flop (everyone plays short-stack at $2nl on FTP)... and he flopped his set. But that happens and it would have happened regardless of how I played.

I think the lesson on pre-flop aggression applies more to much higher limits though. A 2xbb raise from UTG+1 might be real scary -- if you're opponents are paying attention -- but no one notices or thinks about it at $2nl.

I don't mind though. I enjoyed this little thing. It was cool. I got to be a super-nit for a little while. That was fun.

[Wackypacky]

So what do you guys think about the full tilt academy? Have you done any of the challenges?

So far I don't think the challenges have improved my game. To be honest the only reason why I tried it was to get free points. Although I must say that some of the videos on the academy site were useful to watch. I like the ones where you can watch the pros play live and they give commentary while they are playing. I don't think this will revolutionize online poker strategy but I think the videos will for sure help players that are just starting off.

Why I don't like some of the challenges:
The way the challenges are set up they sometimes force you to do weird things that you normally might not do. For example: In Aaron Bartley's challenge sitngo by the numbers one of the tasks is to Fold A-J, A-T, A-9, K-Q, or K-J in early position 2 times while 7 or more players remain in a 9-handed S&G. As we all know there are many different styles in poker and you can win playing in different ways. Normally I would never fold AJ in the spot listed above but hey that is me. Sometimes I found my self losing more $ while I was following the rules of the challenge just to TRY TO WIN THE CHALLENGE LOL.

Why I like the challenges:
The think I like about the challenges is that they do force you to play differently. I think this can be good because it will show you that you don't know everything and you may learn something new. I think it is always important to keep learning and evolving but I also think it is important to keep doing what you are doing if it is working.

http://academy.fulltiltpoker.com

Hey bud, I think the academy is a good idea. I have won $120 playing those tactics recommended buy the pros. Only playing 5c -10c blinds n 10c - 25c blinds. I dont have the bank roll to play reguraly at higher stakes. But to pull out $120 US playing small stakes must be applauded to the academy tactics I believe. It has its faults but so does anything I guess. I like your post bud. Intellectual.

[emoneypitt]

I've done a few of the challenges so far. I think I've picked up a couple useful things but as has been mentioned, there's some things they want you to do that is outside of my normal game. Probably the SNG challenge was the most helpful, even though I don't play them much anymore.

[pokerbucket]

I played for a little over 4 hours this morning. I obviously need a life. I managed to complete the entire pre-flop challenge (which I started this morning) in under 644 hands. I don't know exactly how many it took to complete it all because there is a long delay between when you do something and when you get credit for it. I stopped when I was sure I had completed it all. And then gave it like an hour to get the very last thing accounted for.

It wasn't bad... it was really boring and basic poker. I didn't get a whole lot of good cards. It actually took me longer to raise 3 times in middle position with the hands they required than it took to play 500 hands without calling pre-flop because I just wasn't getting any of those hands when I was in middle position. I did run about 9.1ptBB/100 for the session. So it wasn't as bad as it felt. I really thought I was winning at a much slower rate than that. Most of my profits came from people stupidly playing for stacks when I had a big pair pre-flop. And one poor shlub who called my 3-bet with T-T (I had J-J) and the flop came 4-T-J. I can't blame him for losing his 75xbb stack in that spot.

I did lose a couple biggish pots... when I ran Q-Q into 8-8 for 60xbb pre-flop (everyone plays short-stack at $2nl on FTP)... and he flopped his set. But that happens and it would have happened regardless of how I played.

I think the lesson on pre-flop aggression applies more to much higher limits though. A 2xbb raise from UTG+1 might be real scary -- if you're opponents are paying attention -- but no one notices or thinks about it at $2nl.

I don't mind though. I enjoyed this little thing. It was cool. I got to be a super-nit for a little while. That was fun.

are there any specific tactics you have learned from that challenges that have helped you?

[frob23]

are there any specific tactics you have learned from that challenges that have helped you?

From that challenge in particular? Not many. About the only thing that worked for me was the never calling pre-flop thing. I still don't think I can commit, long-term, to never call pre-flop. I might never "open call" pre-flop but if I am calling behind a bunch of limpers with hands that play well in multi-way pots.

If anything, this has fixed one problem in my game where I would limp marginal hands on the button in the hopes of playing a pot against the blinds. But it's much better to just bet the hand and take the blinds or fold it... and not give the big blind a freeroll. I was doing that once in a while and I realize it was bad. I realized it before though, I just didn't worry too much about it.

I'm doing the common leaks one right now. And it suits me a bit more. It never opens for a min-raise and you're basically playing good solid poker. There are times when I am tempted to play when it wants a fold (like when I have a hand like KQs and there's a raise and 3 callers in front of me). But that is because it has become an exception to the "don't play dominated hands" rule... since I am not playing to make a pair anymore and could easily fold a pair.

[frob23]

Oh, this isn't to say there isn't a LOT of value to these lessons for some players. The points they make really are valuable little tidbits. Their tight pre-flop standards keep people out of trouble most of the time and fix a lot of the loose calls and commonly over-valued hands. If every single person at the limits I play simply stopped playing hands like K-Jo to a raise, it would be much harder to win chips from them.

And the comment about not betting medium strength hands on the river -- especially in NL -- that one is gold. I learned that on my own and the hard way. And eventually found words for it in a couple books that mention not betting hands that only get called by hands that beat it. That is roughly the point they get at. Of course they explain in more detail why it is more profitable to check in those spots. And betting your weak hands as well as your strong hands on the river. That is some really choice advice there that I appreciate weak players lacking. I absolutely love the player who doesn't understand how to apply that in practice.

The only real issue with this advice is they don't explain how to know if your hand is "medium" strength. They give one example but there are many variations and it can be very hard to say what is and what isn't a medium strength hand by the river. This isn't the fault of the lessons... that knowledge comes from experience in a game and against certain players.

Still... there is good stuff here. If my sister every decides to give up 7-stud and come to NL hold'em... those are some lessons I would make sure she sat through.

[Zac]

I haven't tried any of their challenges but after reading around the subject and talking to a few friends online about it i think the full tilt academy is a great idea and i reckon i'll get involved pretty soon

[Huskers314]

I don't know that I've learned a ton from the FTPA, but I've earned a lot of academy credits to buy stuff, so that's a plus in itself, right?

[frob23]

I am doing one of the challenges now. It's the power of position. I can already tell you that It's highly unlikely that I will ever complete this one. It isn't because I don't play position well. In fact, most of the things in the challenge are easy and trivial.

The problem comes from the task: "Win the pot 3 consecutive times from the button." There is no qualifier here. If you fold, you start over. If you can't get the other players to fold and you don't have the best hand, you start over. Well, I'm playing within my bankroll so I am playing $2NL on FTP. It is possible to steal from the button once in a while -- if everything works out right. But it's just not feasible to expect to be able to do it 3 consecutive times when playing tables where 50%+ of the players want to see the flop.

I suppose I could just shove 3 buttons in a row... and hope everyone folds... they probably would. But I have a feeling that is not what they intend to teach with this task.

[Huskers314]

I am doing one of the challenges now. It's the power of position. I can already tell you that It's highly unlikely that I will ever complete this one. It isn't because I don't play position well. In fact, most of the things in the challenge are easy and trivial.

The problem comes from the task: "Win the pot 3 consecutive times from the button." There is no qualifier here. If you fold, you start over. If you can't get the other players to fold and you don't have the best hand, you start over. Well, I'm playing within my bankroll so I am playing $2NL on FTP. It is possible to steal from the button once in a while -- if everything works out right. But it's just not feasible to expect to be able to do it 3 consecutive times when playing tables where 50%+ of the players want to see the flop.

I suppose I could just shove 3 buttons in a row... and hope everyone folds... they probably would. But I have a feeling that is not what they intend to teach with this task.

Play three tables and do it once on each table. That's how I did it.

[frecklers]

having been on cardrunners prior to the Full Tilt Academy I would say it is a complete waste of time.

The advice is so thin and lacks any substance....

The only way you would get anything meaningful from FTA is if you are new to the game.

[Binwag]

Waste of time.....

[travz21]

Good idea for FTP. It gets players playing better. The more equal the competition, the longer people can play against each other without going broke. Meaning that there will be more asses in the seats generating more rake compared to fish busting right away.

I have gotten a free card deck from it, though. Sweet, I know.

[pokerbucket]

Good idea for FTP. It gets players playing better. The more equal the competition, the longer people can play against each other without going broke. Meaning that there will be more asses in the seats generating more rake compared to fish busting right away.

I have gotten a free card deck from it, though. Sweet, I know.

I disagree I want more fish out there... and just because people go broke doesn't mean they won't reload... there are tons of shitty players out there that got money.

[liladypokerpro]

Imho, it's just another camouflaged ploy to get more deposits out of people. I mean think about it - if some new fish feels the need to "learn" to that extent, they're gonna go broke trying to complete some of those challenges because they want to impress people either by what they've learned OR just for one of those silly token icons... so then what happens... they go broke, they have to deposit to keep trying... It's ingenius, really... focusing on the human's weakness toward addiction, the human's need for acceptance from his/her peers, and adding into that the human's competitive nature - it's a perfect money machine.

[keanosdog]

pokerbucket,i think you're missing trav's point, which is if people learn to play they'll no longer be fish.

then the game becomes more even, everybody passes chips around and the big winner is full tilt.

[travz21]

Right. When I said it's a good idea for Full Tilt I meant it's a good idea to make them more money. I didn't mean it's better for us. Of course we want more fish. FT just wants more rake.