What is wrong with fulltilt ppl?
In this situation : freeroll tourney 38 ppl left..
I play tight. accumelated 61 000 chips..bigstack to my right 148 000 chips ..
I'm dealt KK on bb..he calls..I rais 20 000 chips..he calls
flop is J 2 10..I bet 10 000 ..he calls
turn is 8..I bet 10 000..he calls
river is 3..I check out of frustration..he checks..
my hand KK J 10 8..
he shows 333..
am I un-reasonable in saying : this is rude..chasing a 3 with 40 000 chips..
just like to know ,,
PS. I then went out of tourney on the bubble
How much were the blinds when you raised to 20k?
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it's not rude. it's just not very smart. then again, neither is betting 10,000 into a 40,000+ chip pot. you should have gone all in on the flop.
The blinds are clearly relevant to the tale here, however I have to agree with DBS, the first thing I thought when seeing this post was 10000 bet is a huge mistake.
You should be shoving it in on the flop
Gotta bet more on both the flop and turn here. You bet like 1/4 pot and 1/6 pot.
the blinds were 5000/10 000 ..it was after 4+ hours play
I think my rais was relevant..
20 000 rais with blinds 5000/ 10 000..
if you only had 60,000 chips with a 10,000 bb, you should have gone all in preflop.
Forgive me if I sound blunt, but if the blinds were 5k/10k and you only min-raised to 20k it's really no wonder your KK didn't survive.Originally Posted by gerhardt
OR... are you saying you raised 20k more, which would be a total of 3xBB? Still, I don't feel like that's enough, but it would be better than min-raising.
TBPH, as was pointed out above, with those blinds and that hand you should be shoving all in there. ATC are calling u for anything less.
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what makes it rude was I did practically shove all in( 1/3rd of my chips) ..my rais was 2x the bb (20 000) with KK (second best starting hand)
I give that he did call with 33..but he did not hit on the flop, I then bet 1x the bb (10 000) ..in other words, I have a good hand..He calls(this is the rude part) and hits on the river..
With a small pair any (good) player will call on the flop..if then he hits , and goes all in, it is now my prorogitive to call , or fold..but check , and call a big bet, that is just plain stupid..
Last edited by gerhardt; 31st August 2009 at 08:40 PM.
Sorry lilady..
I was the bb 10 000..he was the sb 5000..I raised 2x the bb to 20 000, and my conclusion is:
He was going to call no matter what I did..
Well only you know how well you had a read on your opponent, so if you are 100% sure he would have called you no matter what, then there's not much left open for discussion here, is there?
http://pokerelated.blogspot.com/
OK time for some tough love... (bold is my reply to your quotes)
Okay here's the thing. You call yourself min-raising as showing strength preflop, and then min-betting on the flop as proving you have a hand. This is where your thinking is flawed. I really would like to suggest some reading materials for you, so you can understand how you basically begged this guy to suck out on you.
I'm not trying to be an ass and I hope you understand that this is just tough love. You did not play this hand well and you lost. There was nothing rude about the other guy's play at all. He probably didn't think you had anything because your bets did not show any kind of strength nor consistency.
http://pokerelated.blogspot.com/
in this situation, you were probably going to lose no matter what. but you are missing the point everyone is trying to make. your bets were too small to get anyone off any kind of hand. if he had limped with 2 7 off, he's calling your min raise there. since you were short stacked, you should have gone all in. that said, after the flop, your min bet still isn't going to get him off any kind of hand. your only option was to go all in.
now for the sake of argument, lets say you had 150,000 chips to start the hand. he limps, you should raise to 30,000. he calls. there's now over 60,000 chips in the pot. you have 120,000 left. you can either bet pot for 60,000 chips. or go all in.
OK lets anylise..
online , there are thousands of players...have anyone been beaten with AA? I have ..plenty times, by ppl shoving all in with any combination, I mean 2 9, 3 5 ..etc. they play this new donk-in with anything kind of play..you beat most of these, but then at a certain point, the players play tighter, and make sensible bets , calls and raises..
I certanly read him right, but I agree , in retrospect, that I should have shoved all in , on the flop or turn, instead of checking, which gave him a free river, and the 3..
My thought process was : play tight, till you get in the money, then you can make more risky bets, raises, etc. thus my reason for not shoving, to my detrament.
Thanks for helping me becoming a better player you guys/girls..only been at this for a year , and still learning , every day/tourney..
lilady..
Thanx for this tuf love, correction on my post( look at my final analysis) but,
the reason you don't understand what I am trying to confey is ..men are from mars, woman are from venus
There is a huge difference between playing tight and playing scared. I'm not saying you play scared, but when you bet like you did in this hand, it looks that way to the opponents, and they do not have any reason to fear that you may have a big hand. The main reason big hands get beat is when they are played weakly/poorly.
Your bet size is your only real active weapon, because people can't see your hole cards, but they can plainly see your bets, and they will judge your strength based on how you portray your hand strength through your bets. You can be the guy playing with 7 2 off and winning with it if your bets make you look like you're holding Aces.
To put it metaphorically, your bets come off like styrofoam pebbles from a broken slingshot. You need to get your bets to where they come off like an atomic bomb. Nobody is afraid of styrofoam pebbles... but I don't know any people who would want to take on an atomic bomb.
PS >>> We are all from Earth. I understand your analysis, now you need to understand why it's not the profitable way to play the hand. I'm trying to explain it but if you want to continue to lose in this manner with your big hands, then don't listen. It's up to you, but I'm not the only one telling you this, so if you choose not to listen just because I'm a woman, then I won't waste anymore of my time trying to help you.
http://pokerelated.blogspot.com/
lilady...We all know perfectly well that women can't play poker.....
Although by some miracle you have actually managed to get this one right....
I can only assume you asked a male friend for assistance
You really shouldn't try to use gender as a reason that someone else doesn't understand... especially in this situation. I back everything lilady says and am fully of the male gender. You played this hand crazy weak and not well. That's just the simple fact. With the stacks sizes etc, you should be looking at getting this all in. You also cannot be worried about "just making the money" or you will never be that successful at MTT's. As far as I'm concerned, the money isn't really there until you go a lot deeper than the payout structure is.
I love you too frecklers...lilady...We all know perfectly well that women can't play poker.....
Although by some miracle you have actually managed to get this one right....
I can only assume you asked a male friend for assistance
By the way... I don't cook... but I do shoot better than every male in our family...
http://pokerelated.blogspot.com/
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