Squeeze Play- Hard Situation

[EliminateU]

To keep this narrow and on point:

Cash game scenario. You are playing at 400NL. You are in the SB with QQ. UTG ( slightly wild player who is winning, but is not afraid to get his chips in the middle) limps, folds around to button ( a player who has been stealing around 25-28%) raises to 20. Do you:

A) Straight fold because of the fact even QQ won't like to see the almost inevitable UTG re-raise followed by a call or 4-bet shove by button.

B) Call, and hope UTG calls. If UTG decides to 3-bet or shove, fold.

C) Re-raise to a "suspicious" (hoping they put you on AA) 55.

D) Shove

Classic squeeze play situation. I know it doesn't happen alot, but this can be a huge loser or big winner depending on outcome. And QQ and JJ are the 2nd and 3rd hardest hands to play (I think).

Please pick a choice and give reasoning. Hopefully we have 4 "camps" at the end to learn from.

[travz21]

A is retarded, B is retarded reasoning, C is retarded reasoning, D is retarded.

For C, why would you want someone to put you on AA when you have QQ? You aren't bluffing. You are playing QQ for value, I'm assuming.

If you're playing a hand for value, every time you bet or raise you have to think, "Will they call this bet/raise with a worse hand?" If they can't call with a worse hand, you're turning your hand into a bluff.

This would make D really stupid, because you're only going to get called by better, turning the third best starting hand (QQ) into a bluff pf. You could be shoving with any 2 cards and you're still only going to get called by KK or AA. Why waste a good hand and turn it into a bluff?

C is a decent option, minus the reasoning. Raise to 55 for value if you think they call with JJ (or less) or AK.

B is bad reasoning, but a decent option. If the villian who raised to 20 is never calling a 3bet here with less than KK, calling is the best option for value purposes. You can get them to cbet air and take down a nice pot. Obv you can lose, too, but this is a cash game, you don't need to protect your hand by shoving pf.

A is just pure badness.

These are difficult situations though. There's a lot to think about that I'm sure most people disregard. Good post.

[RiverstarsVictim]

Button's raise to 20, is it his normal raise? UTG's limp, does he normally call any raise or re-raise? Is there any history between UTG and button?

It's a tough decision which seems very player dependant. On my micro limits I can see a case for folding or shoving or even set-mining depending on UTG.

Sorry for the useless reply.

[EliminateU]

No reply is useless. I probably should have just left the choices without any reasoning or commentary. SOOOOO

A) Fold

B) Call, then fold to a large 3-bet or shove

C) Re-raise to 55

D) Shove

I should have left all the reasoning to the answerer.

[liladypokerpro]

Bleh, I hate MCQs about poker lol I guess I'm gonna just take a flying leap here and say shove. Given the description of UTG, it sounds like there's a good chance we can get him to call with almost anything and stand a good chance to double up off of him while hopefully getting everyone else out of the way.

I don't really like the "suspicious" raise. To me it's inviting too many callers, which is something I personally don't want with QQ. I'd rather end up heads up with it all in than to have 3 or 4 other players likely to hold Kx or higher and they end up hitting.

[RiverstarsVictim]

No reply is useless. I probably should have just left the choices without any reasoning or commentary. SOOOOO

A) Fold

B) Call, then fold to a large 3-bet or shove

C) Re-raise to 55

D) Shove

I should have left all the reasoning to the answerer.

It's always gonna be player dependant though.

For the sake of a bunch of unknowns I'm shoving. I dont want to play anymore streets OOP if an ace/king flops and I'm more than happy to take the pot here & now and move on.

That's all fine on micros though. Is UTG capable of shoving 22/ak if you call or is it always AA/KK? Button steals 25-28% but how does this raise compare to other raises?

I've got to assume if you're playing these limits you have some knowledge on your opponents.

[DeadBabySoup]

i'd raise to 60. if the limper shoves, i fold. he's the only one i'm worried about here. the button probably has AK at best or is bluffing.

[frecklers]

U can't automatically assume AA or KK just because UTG flats and then overshoves... Wild or aggro players will see this as a bluff opportunity and shove all manner of small PPs suited A's etc.etc. Although I accept the involvement of the button would make a bluff shove from UTG less likely.


Just examining the options


1. Folding would be ridiculous (UTG Range could be Any suited A, Small- Med PP's, Suited connectors and broadway hands plus AA or KK or do you have him much tighter?

2. Calling does not charge worse hands to draw, nor does it extract value when you have the best hand (which you do most of the time). Regardless of whether my opponents will call a 3bet with 10 10, JJ, AK or worse, I am not allowing KQ, AJ, A10 or any pairs a free flop to beat me.

3. Reraising to 55 / 60 seems to me to be the best option. Your opinion of the UTG player and his range to reshove will determine whether or not you decide to call if he pushes (IMO you can't run scared of AA & KK all the time although if UTG has any nouse he will only shove AA or KK in this circumstance) Clearly shove followed by Button call is insta fold.

4. Shoving has no value IMO unless either or both opponents will call a widish range.


What are your range expectations for both players based upon previous play before you act and what is your assesment of the calling / folding / shoving range that would follow your reraise?

[RiverstarsVictim]

U can't automatically assume AA or KK just because UTG flats and then overshoves... Wild or aggro players will see this as a bluff opportunity and shove all manner of small PPs suited A's etc.etc. Although I accept the involvement of the button would make a bluff shove from UTG less likely.

Totally agree, hence my question

Is UTG capable of shoving 22/ak if you call or is it always AA/KK?

If UTG is capable of shoving 22/AK then nothing wrong with calling here and then calling UTG's shove or shoving his re-raise dependant on button folding.

Without this knowledge then it's a much tougher decision.

[DeadBabySoup]

U can't automatically assume AA or KK just because UTG flats and then overshoves...

no. but with a raise then re-raise, it would be hard for him to shove with anything less than aces or kings.

[RiverstarsVictim]

no. but with a raise then re-raise, it would be hard for him to shove with anything less than aces or kings.

Disagree. With that line you could be folding the best hand when UTG shoves. UTG likes to get his chips in so no reason to believe he isn't setting up a play using his position (of perceived strength). Maybe this is button's read and he has a real hand but making it look like another steal? If so then check - call/fold?

I dont think there's any right or wrong answer here without more information.

[frecklers]

I think there are two or three ways of looking at this DBS (from the perspective of the UTG player)


1. Button Raise ..... This could easily be a positional raise or attempt to isolate Me with position, because he knows I like to play flops.

2. BB Reraise...... BB is merely saying he has a better hand than a button opener so he is not necessarily uber strong.


3. Hang on I can take this down by repping AA


or


1. Button Raise... He has seen me flat and knows I am likely to be pretty strong so he must have a good hand.

2. BB Reraise ... Wow a reraise when he has seen me flat in P1 (potentially with AA or KK) then a button reraise...He must be real strong

3. I am only shoving here with AA or KK


or


Bah a couple of raisers (lets see if I can take it down I got the chips to mess with them)


I would possibly agree that AA or KK would be the most likely shove range (from a sensible thinking player) but we cannot assume this to be the case. Plus as we have seen above the players own image can and should affect his own thought process.

Personally in an ideal world I would like to have seen the player make the move with a weaker holding in order to call him down with my QQ (should he re re raise of course). That said if I view him as wildly aggressive, if I have seen him make other moves or If he is German, French, Austrian, Finnish, Swedish, Dutch or Nowegian then I may well be happy to get it all in with UTG.

[frecklers]

Just as one final point...

If the UTG player were to know u and Button will only call an all in resove with AA or KK then his shove with any two cards is hugely profitable.

[DeadBabySoup]

Disagree. With that line you could be folding the best hand when UTG shoves. UTG likes to get his chips in so no reason to believe he isn't setting up a play using his position (of perceived strength). Maybe this is button's read and he has a real hand but making it look like another steal? If so then check - call/fold?

I dont think there's any right or wrong answer here without more information.

i'm just going on the limited information i have. an all in bluff when faced with a raise and re-raise is more than "a little wild" in my opinion. assuming EU has a tight image, he should put at least one of us on a premium hand. if he does, about the only hand he could get to fold is QQ. he has to worry about AA and KK himself. so a bluff would be borderline suicidal. that said, we're probably putting a little too much thought into that scenario. when we don't even know if that's what happened.

[EliminateU]

Where would you draw the line, hand-wise, in this situation with the info provided?

Would JJ be where you'd initially fold to this?

TT, 99?

[luda917]

i would raise to pot plus 1 or 2 clicks on the slider. simply because you are out of position you are first to act if you were in position you can simply flat call. you have a strong hand you want value for your hand. UTG player may play wild but when UTG most people play the tightest. UTG may flat call you because he has a small PP or a suited connector or even air if he plays loosely but his call is unlikely. even if he has a pp he has 1 in 8 chances of hitting a set, so a c-bet post flop will help narrow his range. he obviously wont flat a set and then you can fold. if the button has a high steal rate i would not worry about him. i dont know if you use any hand tracking software but you should at that level. you can check your opponents vpip and 3bet percentages to help you play the hand better and see how wide their ranges are.

or u can flat call and see what the UTG player does but if he is aware that the button likes to steal the pot he will definitely raise to play you heads up.

hope this helps

how did the hand end up playin out?