Is Live 1/2 Beatable?

[Ladderman_1090]

I was playing at Mohegan Sun last night and had a difficult time trying too adjust to live play. I sat at 1/2NL and immediately noticed that the table had about 60% of people to the flop. I'm generally a pretty tight player so I initially thought this would work to my advantage. Eventually I do pick up AA in middle position and raise to 15 after two or three limpers. Naturally, I get 7 callers, which seems to be kind of standard live. I guess it's always fun when you are setmining with AA. Anyway, flop comes all rags, I am assuming someone has a set or two pair on this board but I am tilted and shove after someone opened with a $15 bet. I get called by a flush draw and obv it hits. What do you guys think, is live 1/2 beatable?

[kazmat32]

Sure. Online you would typically look for the tables with high percentage of players to the flop as those are normally the best tables. They usually have one or two of the donks who vpip over 50%. Sometimes you even get them over 80%. These are the players you always try to exploit. You're at the table because they are there and you know how easy it is for them to just donate money to you. They play so many hands so you respond by constantly trying to isolate them in pots and then relentlessly valuebetting when you hit something. You should likely be cbetting with air less as many of these players are of the type with around a 15% fold to cbet. Betting out like a Q high on a board that you missed accomplishes nothing in this situation other than needlessly bloating the pot (unless of course you have a read on him that tells you he will never fold to a flop cbet but will very often fold to a double barrel on the turn).

The table your describing seemingly is a table all of these players at once. This could put you in a tricky spot as it is tough to isolate them since they just hit that call button every time. What's a fold? One thing you can do is experimenting with raising more preflop. Whereas 3.5bb might be standard online to get you to a 2-4 way pot, that won't happen at a table like this. How many callers will you get with a 5bb raise? what about a 10? Just keep experimenting until you find the right amount that thins the field. I mean if youre gonna raise 20bb with AA and get callers...why not? You just get more money in while you're ahead and make your opponents mistakes even larger.

Now, in the situation you got into...with AA in an 8-way pot to the flop. I would probably just bet if it came to me and then fold to a raise. How can you possibly ever be good in that spot? There's so many random two pairs that have you beat and these players, who play anything, are never getting away from draws also (likely just calling to try and hit) so you're like never good. If someone bets into me though..not sure..I certaintly wouldn't just dump them right away on a pretty dry board...raising might be best here...if you call you might draw along the entire table which would be awful...the issue raising here though is if you get 3bet how can you ever continue?

Just try to valuebet them as much as possible when you have something and pay specific attention to what sort of hands these guys will continue with on the flop.

[Gowild19]

It is far more beatable than a table where people play relatively well. All you have to do is wait for huge hands and make absurd overbets, they will get called. At tables like this raising to 10x BB preflop is perfectly acceptable.

Sure you will take a few more bad beats but the action you get on your big hands will more than make up for it long term.

[C8H10N4O2]

I was playing at Mohegan Sun last night and had a difficult time trying too adjust to live play. I sat at 1/2NL and immediately noticed that the table had about 60% of people to the flop. I'm generally a pretty tight player so I initially thought this would work to my advantage. Eventually I do pick up AA in middle position and raise to 15 after two or three limpers. Naturally, I get 7 callers, which seems to be kind of standard live. I guess it's always fun when you are setmining with AA. Anyway, flop comes all rags, I am assuming someone has a set or two pair on this board but I am tilted and shove after someone opened with a $15 bet. I get called by a flush draw and obv it hits. What do you guys think, is live 1/2 beatable?

I think this is more of a "complaint about a beat" than a real question. Of course it's beatable, even more beatable than $1/$2 online play. It just has high variance.

[travz21]

Now that I think of it, I don't think anyone has ever beaten nl200 live before. Oh wait, good people crush these levels because they are like nl10 online, nevermind. Why would you even ask such a question? Obv it's beatable.

Raise way more pf. 8-10x the bb is a standard open raise pf in live play. In this specific situation I'm raising to 25 at least, depending on what I think people would still call. 15 is an invite for pretty much anyone with two cards.

And why would you make such a gross mega-overshove on that flop? AA isn't hard to release on flops like that with a million people in, even though you somehow ended up ahead when it all got in. I'm pretty sure that move is going to kill your winrate unless you isolate opponents and avoid full table family pots with overpairs.

And, Dew, I'm not sure about the higher variance thing. Yeah, people calling down with bottom pair are going to beat you more often than people who fold bottom pair to your bets, obv, but you're going to win way more money off of these guys even in a single session. You're going to beat these games 90% of the time, while maybe losing more hands than normal, but winning way more money out of the hands you do win.

[Ladderman_1090]

I'm aware that it's a fold. Looking at it, there are a million reasons to let this one go, although I am not sure if you let it go when someone leads out 15 there. I still have a lot of equity in this pot assuming I am currently beat by two pair. Point being, it's a lot harder to fold live when you sit on that hand for hours getting 20 hands an hour instead of 1000. Anyway it just seems like because of the %of people in every pot and the rake that there is no good strategy to beat 1/2 live.

[kazmat32]

Just try and be patient and bulldoze when you finally get something. I wouldn't try to get very bluffy at all. Definitely a -EV strategy since you will get called down so light.

[bsg]

Big pf raise...hmmm.. I suppose if u r on tat table even standing up and doing a little dance is ok right?

[C8H10N4O2]

And, Dew, I'm not sure about the higher variance thing. Yeah, people calling down with bottom pair are going to beat you more often than people who fold bottom pair to your bets, obv, but you're going to win way more money off of these guys even in a single session. You're going to beat these games 90% of the time, while maybe losing more hands than normal, but winning way more money out of the hands you do win.

I've just witnessed a lot of people calling overbets with draws. I saw one hand go from a $25 pot going to the flop to a $600 all-in pot after the flop with one guy having a low flush draw and the other having an overpair. It just seems like the percentage that your hand wins will play out much much more because people don't ever fold. That being said, I've played 200nl live 5 times and only come out down 1 time, so I guess my personal variance hasn't been that high. Especially considering the one time I came out down was less than a full buy-in down, and the times I came out ahead, only one was not a full buy-in up.