Laying down a pocket pair

[testreet]

I just wanted some insight on to whether anyone has the insight to laydown a pocket pair pre flop 10's and up. I want to know how to better play my pocket pairs because sometimes they can get me into sort of a pickle if I am not careful enough

[Wyte22]

Laid down JJ, QQ, KK PF in a cash game, just based on reads (playing live) I knew I was behind in every situation (it involved a 3 or 4 bet and player tendenices and hand selection with bet).

Laid down AA before, live sat tourney. We were 2 from the prize, three allins in front of me, I folded the aces because one of the all-ins had me covered. He procedd to flop a set and knock out the other 2 and I collect my prize

[C8H10N4O2]

I've never and will never lay down AA pre-flop in a cash game. (assuming texas hold'em)

I've laid down KK several times with pretty player specific reads or because of money situations etc, in tournaments, but I haven't played enough tournaments to have had to lay down AA pre-flop because of a situation like wyte describes. I've laid down QQ and JJ several times as well.

[travz21]

I just shove with all my pp's

[gategod]

I've layed down JJ a few times preflop when the betting was getting too high or people were going all in crazily.

[Rebels Devil]

It has always depended on how I read the table as to whether I would lay anything over JJ down. But, in most cases the JJ has been the hook that sinks me. Very seldom have I tossed anything higher than JJ on pre-flop hand.

[Smilie]

Very hard to lay down AA pre flop.. Anything below QQ I would lay down .

[liladypokerpro]

I need a button for "all of the above"

And before anyone rips me for the aces, I'm sorry, but I am not getting in a multi-way all-in with 5 other people with Aces... ever...

[Serenity]

AA KK im all in pre-flop unless im trying to trap someone and just call, QQ depends how far in a tourny I am as to shove or just call and see a flop then play as I see it no overcards I shove same with JJ but will fold them pre-flop if it costs me half my stack or more.

Altho I was in one hand with KK and 2 other's, it got raised preflop, I called, A on the flop, some one shoved all in the other person called I folded the guy that originally raised had A3 and the caller had k10 and made a straight.

[travz21]

I just shove all my pp's

[C8H10N4O2]

I need a button for "all of the above"

And before anyone rips me for the aces, I'm sorry, but I am not getting in a multi-way all-in with 5 other people with Aces... ever...

I can totally understand this in SnG's and MTT's as there are opportunities that it's +EV to fold AA pre-flop. I however, cannot comprehend your reasoning for cash games as it is only -EV to fold AA pre-flop. (this isn't meant to bash you or anything either... I just cannot understand it)

[Fictive]

I need a button for "all of the above"

And before anyone rips me for the aces, I'm sorry, but I am not getting in a multi-way all-in with 5 other people with Aces... ever...

Eh, I dunno... Sure, it does become more of a coinflip at that point, but nevertheless... AA is always the favorite, and what you want to do is get your chips in with the best of it and hope your hand holds. So far, I've never folded AA preflop. All other pp's yes, AA no.

[liladypokerpro]

I can totally understand this in SnG's and MTT's as there are opportunities that it's +EV to fold AA pre-flop. I however, cannot comprehend your reasoning for cash games as it is only -EV to fold AA pre-flop. (this isn't meant to bash you or anything either... I just cannot understand it)

I know that everyone has their own methodology, so I would not ever think you were bashing me. Thanks for emphasis, though.

The cards and how they fall do not change just because you are in a SnG, MTT or cash table. All the same basic principles apply. The only thing different is the strategy for each. The situation I'm speaking of is rare and has probably only ever happened to me twice, ever. Where there are 5 or more people all-in and I'm left to act with AA. I will never and I mean NEVER get involved in that. Why? Because AA is a pair. In a multi-way all-in such as this, I'd much prefer to have a suited connector than any pair. Many more opportunities ftw vs. a simple pair.

[allthatremains]

I can totally understand this in SnG's and MTT's as there are opportunities that it's +EV to fold AA pre-flop. I however, cannot comprehend your reasoning for cash games as it is only -EV to fold AA pre-flop. (this isn't meant to bash you or anything either... I just cannot understand it)

Yeah, this is bad. Someone posted the math in another thread a couple weeks ago.

[travz21]

Yeah. I can't remember who posted it either...

[C8H10N4O2]

Yeah. I can't remember who posted it either...

Lol

I know that everyone has their own methodology, so I would not ever think you were bashing me. Thanks for emphasis, though.

The cards and how they fall do not change just because you are in a SnG, MTT or cash table. All the same basic principles apply. The only thing different is the strategy for each. The situation I'm speaking of is rare and has probably only ever happened to me twice, ever. Where there are 5 or more people all-in and I'm left to act with AA. I will never and I mean NEVER get involved in that. Why? Because AA is a pair. In a multi-way all-in such as this, I'd much prefer to have a suited connector than any pair. Many more opportunities ftw vs. a simple pair.

Well, my methodology is different for SnG's/MTT's with AA in a 5 way pot because of everything revolving around ICM and bubble etc. I should run the math on this too, but I would think playing in a 6 person SNG first hand, if everyone went all-in first hand and you were left to act with AA with 5 prior all-ins, it's a profitable fold, as you are almost guaranteed 2nd everytime. Because of the payout structures etc, I don't think it'd be as profitable to call for only the X% of time you win. It's different because the payout structure changes the math. But when you look at cash, there is no change in payout structure.

Even though there are many more opportunities ftw, you still just aren't a favorite against AA in hold'em. I think this thinking though is great for Omaha. But I also don't understand omaha. I do understand the "it's such a crap shoot" mentality, but it's just always in your favor, so you'll always push an edge. Anyway, it's not like this situation even presents itself that often lol... in fact, I don't think I've ever been in an all-in pot 6 ways with AA ... but I wouldn't pass up the opportunity at a cash table I guess.

[travz21]

Also, wtf are people going to be shoving with pf in cash games? You'll have people with KK, QQ, KK, and QQ if you are faced with a 4 all in situation with your AA and then you're a 96% favorite. Even if they have KK, JsTs, 9h8h, 6d5d, you have a 37% chance to win a 5 BI pot, effectively winning 1.85 BI. That's about the worst scenario I can think of. But that would almost never happen unless everyone is totally drunk. Why would you still fold AA, lilady?

[phaul]

It's literally impossible to be -EV getting in AA in a cash game preflop unless someone else also has AA. And even then, if they're playing sensibly you'd have to be up against AA, KK, QQ, JJ and TT, and even then you're only -3.5BBs if you started with 100BBs.

[Brooklynbum]

I can count on one hand the times I've folded KK and was up against AA.

Most of these were playing in live games. There's something about playing a live game and getting reads and stuff.

Online, I've folded KK a few times but rarely,

Folding KK is a tough one, but I've been able to do it in specific situations.

[gerhardt]

never laid down pp J-A. Online the odds are ppl shove with pretty much anything.
I call many pp's from short-stacks to often, and it tends to lead to me getting sucked out.