TT on BB, multiway pot, low flop, first to act

[emoneypitt]

Three limp ins and then a short stack raises up. I have no read on this player but I'm seeing the flop with my hand and position. 728 flop with two hearts and I'm first to act..........


PokerStars Game #38941588364: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2010/01/29 23:36:33 ET
Table 'Alioth IX' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: emoneypitt ($50 in chips)
Seat 2: M4000 ($51.50 in chips)
Seat 3: wilmrat ($49.60 in chips)
Seat 4: citag ($41.65 in chips)
Seat 6: skeezics143 ($41.10 in chips)
Seat 7: laydemdown ($50 in chips)
Seat 8: Romodanov ($11.05 in chips)
Seat 9: Badass2635 ($9.15 in chips)
Badass2635: posts small blind $0.25
emoneypitt: posts big blind $0.50
Jeff Snyder: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to emoneypitt [Tc Td]
M4000: folds
wilmrat: calls $0.50
citag: calls $0.50
skeezics143: calls $0.50
laydemdown: folds
Romodanov: raises $2.50 to $3
Badass2635: folds
emoneypitt: calls $2.50
wilmrat: calls $2.50
citag: calls $2.50
skeezics143: folds
*** FLOP *** [7h 2d 8h]
emoneypitt: bets $10
wilmrat: folds
citag: folds
Romodanov: calls $8.05 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($1.95) returned to emoneypitt
*** TURN *** [7h 2d 8h] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [7h 2d 8h Jh] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
emoneypitt: shows [Tc Td] (a pair of Tens)
Romodanov: shows [Ad As] (a pair of Aces)
Romodanov collected $27.45 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $28.85 | Rake $1.40
Board [7h 2d 8h Jh 3c]
Seat 1: emoneypitt (big blind) showed [Tc Td] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 2: M4000 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: wilmrat folded on the Flop
Seat 4: citag folded on the Flop
Seat 6: skeezics143 folded before Flop
Seat 7: laydemdown folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Romodanov (button) showed [Ad As] and won ($27.45) with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: Badass2635 (small blind) folded before Flop

What do you do here? Should I have just checked and see what happens? Maybe I should have just isolated the raiser and reraised pre but I don't really like to do that with <QQ plus with so many players in the hand pre, someone could have been limping in with a big hand early. I know that I ended up getting burned on this hand. Probably one of those shortstacks that only play AA, KK or AK. I felt like I had to go for it with the way the hand played out. Just looking for some opinions here.

[empireonfire]

what happend is kind of standard. But to be honest with the short stack i would have gotten it all in PF. Pretty standard. ALthough if your gonna flat his Raise PF it almost seems like your looking for a reason to fold on the flop unless you hit your set. Preflop against the short stack i would have played more agg and isolated him and got it all in PF. Thats just my 2 cents!

[bsg]

I can't think what I would have done... I would most likely have lost the same amount of money. Even checking or betting smaller on the flop I wouldn't fold to the short stack.. It'll just be too passive. I suppose you were in early position but I couldn't make an argument to play that tight just because of your position with pocket 10.

Although calling pf was kind of passive and betting out on the flop was kind of aggressive. It's like you were hoping for over cards to fold to. I would have rather isolate pf, gives you the chance to win a side pot orand/ get rid of limpers. Aside from that there's not much to do on the flop against shortstack unless you got a good read of JJ or higher.

[ballboy75]

I agree with EMPFIRE on this one, theres nothing much you could have done, you were beaten from the start. As he said, would have probably been better to put the $ in preflop, although the outcome wouldnt have changed.

[travz21]

I fold pf. And if you aren't folding you should be 3betting the shortstacker. And if you don't 3bet and just flat, I'm definitely not leading out into 4 other people with 3 limp/callers.

[emoneypitt]

Thanks for the responses.

I probably should have just isolated the raiser, although as has been mentioned, the outcome would have been the same. I really had no read on the villain. It's hard to just lay down the TT pre on BB unless there's an initial raise and then at least one reraise before the action gets to you. At .25/.50, I see a lot of players that will raise with anything, try to steal the blinds, etc....

[phaul]

I fold pf. And if you aren't folding you should be 3betting the shortstacker. And if you don't 3bet and just flat, I'm definitely not leading out into 4 other people with 3 limp/callers.

This .

[snipermcgees]

This .

Agreed. I lean towards the 3-bet line more than fold (I def play against loose shortstackers though), something like $6.50 would be good.

Well said Travz.

[RAW_FORCE]

Get it in against the shorty pre-flop. TT is 47.5% against a range of 88+, AQ+. Without any stats I cant speculate to his original raising range or 3bet calling range but I would imagine folding to be inferior to 3betting against the vast majority of shorties.

[frecklers]

I am making a standard 3 bet and hoping to isolate if I decide to playey. Folding (whilst a bit nitty) is also an option, given your position and the fact that he is a shortstack and is probably my preference... By just calling here you are essentially set mining and "Hoping" to get some value if others come along... treat your hand like any other small pair and check fold unless your allowed to hit a monster.

Personally if you have no money in the pot, I can;t see any particular value in getting involved with the shortstack in a hand where you are either dominated by a bigger pair or 50/50.

[Brooklynbum]

I've played a lot of cash games at these levels and a short stacker who isn't pushing most likely has AA from my experience.

Short stackers are usually pushing or folding and if this guy is tossing out a raise in EP then it's screaming AA all the way.

I'd have folded in this spot to be honest.

[travz21]

Is a certain play really nitty if it's the best option? I'd say the average short stacker at nl50 is tightish/passive. Because of this, I don't think a random SS'er will iso raise on the button with a range worse than what Raw said. I even think they'd limp with 88/99 maybe TT, hurting our equity considerably against their range.

Folding pf seems like the easy way out, but I think it's also the best play here with 0 reads. And seriously, TT in a 5 way pot first to act is a shitty spot to be in unless we flop a set. And setmining should not be our goal here pf imo.

[Brooklynbum]

That's the thing with short stackers. If they're within the range of mid pair to AQ or AK they're shoving in a multi pot most times (or at least those that I've played against).

Heck they're shoving with KK in a mult-way pot also.

But that's just based on my experience.

I'd put in a normal raise and if I get raised then fold? Set mining against a short stack doesn't seem equitable (I'm more apt to set mine if I can get a huge pot etc.)

What other options do we have except to fold in this spot?

[frecklers]

Is a certain play really nitty if it's the best option?

I think the idea of folding a pair like 10 10 is always going to feel a little nitty to some with relatively limited PF action. I would fold though nonetheless.

[pajala]

You have to isolate the raiser with a 3 Bet, no use inviting more guest than required. Yes he will get it all in but thats poker need to be able to take these hits.

Considering you flat called you option is check fold you have hit your set yes you have an overpair but it isnt that good into 5 players.

I am only folding preflop if there was two raisers pre flop not one, he could be utilising position to squeeze the field and pick up the pot pre flop with a wider range than you are holding.

[mast xx]

imo u have to 3bet the raiser, considering his stack, your position, the overcards on the flop u're going to have 75 % pf the time and the odds u give to other players.

[DirtyVegas44]

I must take the unpopular choice and say the folding PF is prob the best strategy in your case (and I'm not just playing the result)...most of the time 10-10 is a race at best, I like to see a flop cheap, unless i'm the first one in the pot in which case I open with a raise to see where I stand, don't usually call a 3 bet with 10-10 unless i'm getting a really good price to see if I hit set or monster flop...

Another thing to consider, is your read on the short stacker, from my experience, I find short stackers to be very tight and only raise/push with top tier hands (of course not all, but most want to double up and leave the table), unless you thought he was stealing from the limper.

[pajala]

Dirty

Understand you position you are getting 2 to 1 on the call with a pocket pair not to sure what odds you are looking for however?

Mid pairs I agree 66-99 I would prehaps fold preflop however reraising is the best solution in this case.

Concure with your suggestion SS dont have a wide range of hands they would raise with however if he has 2 over cards your still fav in a race to hold up.

Yes the hand is a cooler but you need to expect this going to happen sometime

Lets look from the SS he is calling you shove no matter what hits the board even if he is holding AK or AQ

There are a number of ways you could play this hand each with there own pros and cons, folding could be the right play if you feel he could only be raising with an overpair which has you dominated if so folding is correct.

I still feel a majority of players in this position will reraise but thats only my opinion

[travz21]

Dirty

Understand you position you are getting 2 to 1 on the call with a pocket pair not to sure what odds you are looking for however?

Mid pairs I agree 66-99 I would prehaps fold preflop however reraising is the best solution in this case.

Concure with your suggestion SS dont have a wide range of hands they would raise with however if he has 2 over cards your still fav in a race to hold up.

Yes the hand is a cooler but you need to expect this going to happen sometime

Lets look from the SS he is calling you shove no matter what hits the board even if he is holding AK or AQ

There are a number of ways you could play this hand each with there own pros and cons, folding could be the right play if you feel he could only be raising with an overpair which has you dominated if so folding is correct.

I still feel a majority of players in this position will reraise but thats only my opinion

I couldn't have said it worse myself.

[pajala]

I fold pf. And if you aren't folding you should be 3betting the shortstacker. And if you don't 3bet and just flat, I'm definitely not leading out into 4 other people with 3 limp/callers.

Oh yes you can