How to beat Rush Poker?

[grimReaper]

And what about SNGs? You play like 100 hands max. You have 0 accurate reads on people in that time frame.

I'm going to have to disagree. I'll take 100 hand histories over 0 anyday, at least by that many hands they'll show their colors. If anything, I at least have a "schema" how each player plays. I at least have an understanding for his/her style, sort of the way our brain fills in the two small blind spots our eyes can't see. And generally it works out for me, at least at the low stake tournaments, I rarely show down a losing hand when I have 30bb+ (where I'm not desperate to win chips), unless my opponent drew out on me (which is fine), sucked out (which I have no control over) or gave me incredible odds to call a river bet.

If I were to say that poker is much more than merely bet sizes and "lines" that players take, online poker is no longer poker.

How would you reach that conclusion? Poker is all about knowing player-unique* betting patterns, i.e playing the player. (*Uniqueness is a just a conjecture/observation, though I've yet to register two players playing w/ identical style).

[C8H10N4O2]

How would you reach that conclusion? Poker is all about knowing player-unique* betting patterns, i.e playing the player. (*Uniqueness is a just a conjecture/observation, though I've yet to register two players playing w/ identical style).

If I play live primarily by feel and claim that poker is all about physical tells, I can make such claims. You have now disagreed with what my definition of poker is, and now you are experiencing the same issue I have with your claims that rush isn't poker.

[travz21]

I'm going to have to disagree. I'll take 100 hand histories over 0 anyday, at least by that many hands they'll show their colors. If anything, I at least have a "schema" how each player plays. I at least have an understanding for his/her style, sort of the way our brain fills in the two small blind spots our eyes can't see.

Did you miss my point where I said that isn't enough hands to have accurate stats? You can have the tightest players ever playing 25/20 in full ring over 100 hands. They can be getting premiums in massive bunches. But when you look at 25/20 you assume he's playing a wide range and are likely to push with hands like AT and 77, when in reality he's a longterm 5/5 player who only plays TT+ AQ+. You think you know his/her style, but it's an educated guess from what you have to work with, just like Rush players do.

[grimReaper]

If I play live primarily by feel and claim that poker is all about physical tells, I can make such claims. You have now disagreed with what my definition of poker is, and now you are experiencing the same issue I have with your claims that rush isn't poker.

We've established that this is discussion is on definitions, but like I said, it's understood that poker carries a connotation of a game that incorporates play in which players apply discriminating strategies against different opponents. So, I suppose you're physical tells argument has some validity to prove online poker is not poker, but like I've been saying, you use non-discriminating play, i.e generic/default play against all players when playing Rush or multitabling 4+ tables. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Rush is bad or anything as long as you're making money, all I'm saying is that it doesn't hold that same connotation of poker, which is playing the player. And if you don't play the player, why not just play video poker?

[C8H10N4O2]

Lol... there is not an edge in video poker. There is an edge in rush. That's pretty simply answered.

Also again, I don't know why you absolutely refuse to believe it, but I have multiple hands with multiple opponents logged. I also have notes on people that play rush, and I have made some plays based on the notes. There is still the capability of using "discriminating" play. However, you just see more people and it takes longer to get these reads, which would also lead to even more of an edge if you dedicate yourself to replaying hands to see how certain hands happened and taking notes etc. You do play the player in rush, no matter how often or how much you keep saying you don't, you do. Equating it with video poker is terrible.

[phaul]

You do play the player, just in a broader sense. You play profitably vs. the average player.

[travz21]

Economist just hijacks every thread he enters.

[HeyKidMove]

Play good hands, get it in good. Profit! /Thread

[bsg]

Travis and Dew = winners

the rest = fail

[travz21]

Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

[grimReaper]

Lol... there is not an edge in video poker. There is an edge in rush. That's pretty simply answered.

Having an edge wasn't relevant to the comparison...

Also again, I don't know why you absolutely refuse to believe it, but I have multiple hands with multiple opponents logged. I also have notes on people that play rush, and I have made some plays based on the notes. There is still the capability of using "discriminating" play. However, you just see more people and it takes longer to get these reads, which would also lead to even more of an edge if you dedicate yourself to replaying hands to see how certain hands happened and taking notes etc. You do play the player in rush, no matter how often or how much you keep saying you don't, you do. Equating it with video poker is terrible.

I'm not sure how seriously I can take this point. You have notes/reads on less than 10% of the players there, and even if we assume that you see one person that you know at a table, it's likely he may not play that hand.

[grimReaper]

Economist just hijacks every thread he enters.

Um, if you check how this thread developed, eliminateu was the first to bring it up, I'm pretty much over this discussion.

[EliminateU]

This just in: Poker =/= Poker

poker - any judgement = lotto ; therefore rushpoker < poker

[EliminateU]

You can play the player without knowing anything about how they play. I can sit down at a live table and tell how people play just by looking at them. Just like online I can tell if people are auto-topping up they aren't total fish. You know stats aren't true in any live game you play in? Even the longest live sessions will still have under 1k hands. Without accurate stats, you can't play the player. Therefore, your claim that "not playing the player isn't poker" relates to every live session you've ever played. And what about SNGs? You play like 100 hands max. You have 0 accurate reads on people in that time frame. Rush poker is exactly the same regarding reads, you just play against different people every hand. All you can do is make your best educated guess to how they play and go from there. Unless you have thousands and thousands of hands on someone, you are not playing the player accurately like you think you are.

And why don't you just admit that you make simple mistakes in live games and stop trying to prove that online hurts your live board reading ability.

most of this post is wrong.

- i doubt you can tell how every player plays just by looking at them.
- you can tell how a live player plays within :30-2:00. 20-60 hands. within reason.
- SNGs give pretty solid reads on players fairly quickly, as some players give away their fishy-ness.
- rushpoker is ridiculously about luck.

[EliminateU]

Travis and Dew = winners

the rest = fail

except they show losses and the rest show profit. hmmmmmm.

[RiverstarsVictim]

I haven't played much rush but when I have done there's typically between 350-550 players at any one time. In the space of just 10 hands (less than 2 minutes if I'm folding junk 93o hands in an instant) I've started building data on potentially 80 different players and I dont need to sit until the end of the hand to see what's what . Multiply that data by hours and sessions then you'll soon have a decent enough sample on people. Apparently Holdem Manager's HUD supports rush.

As for any data with regards to SNG's, it's not really too accurate as the game changes strategically. A typical SNG'er will start off playing tag and finish a more lag style. Short stack aint gonna be playing the same as if he was big stack etc etc.

[HeyKidMove]

I love Rush. I'm showing a pretty large profit since it started. I'm running at just under 3 PTBB/100 at 25NL and around 7PTBB at 50NL. I've got about 30k hands for 25NL and almost 10K for 50NL. I don't think you can call that all luck.

[travz21]

most of this post is wrong.

- i doubt you can tell how every player plays just by looking at them.
- you can tell how a live player plays within :30-2:00. 20-60 hands. within reason.
- SNGs give pretty solid reads on players fairly quickly, as some players give away their fishy-ness.
- rushpoker is ridiculously about luck.

Making judgement on how people look and making judgement after 20-60 hands is almost the same thing. Both have no statistical significance. Yeah, there will be obvious signs of a fish like open limping UTG with garbage and calling down with bottom pair, but you'll have no reads on the players without blatant flaws to their game.

And what about SNGs that don't have players giving away blatant flaws, like in live cash games? You'll be guessing the entire SNG about how they play. You can only assume that they play like the majority of SNG players, which is TAG early and LAG late. This is similar to how Rush players have to assume the how the majority of the field plays.

Poker in general is ridiculously about luck.

[EliminateU]

use topshark in SNG. a +15% roi player needs to be respected (like me). a +5% roi player is usually a bit too loose, passive but will make alot of good decisions. -5% roi player loose passive, -25% and below, call any shove they make if you have 55+ A9o+.