Online Poker - Keep it ILLEGAL

[RiverstarsVictim]

i pay my fair share of taxes, when i buy a bar of chocolate i pay something called VAT (value added taxLOL not much value there) when i pay my utility bills i see i pay taxes there too, the list is endless, i dont pay taxes where i do not, or am not Lawfully bound to.

Currently i am dispute over council tax, as a freeman on the land i do not have to pay this, unfortunately the jobsmiths at the council office do not understand the Law, as such they are breaking their oath of office as a civill servant (notice the word servant, they are here to serve me, not the other way round, we are all equal under the law btw). they are liable under their own commercial liabilty if they do not uphold the Law of the land, which is actual serious fraud, LOL.

I do not claim any benefits of any kind, i am a peaceful Law abiding human being. if somebody is claiming something, ie i need to pay taxes on poker earnings, then is it unreasonable to request to see the law. so conditionallt accept their claims, UPON PROOF. ie prove it to me and i will pay, i offered to put £10K into a holding account, and when/if they prove their claims of 'law' then i will pay. but only silence for the moment. I would have thought that if there was any actual Law they are claiming they would have produced it instantly for me and everyone else to see?

First of all, it wasn't a question, I had already put trust/assumed that normal day to day expectations were being met. Secondly, you quoted a reply to WeightGain3000

Anyhow, of course it would apply to you also and frankly, it's none of my business whether you pay council tax etc anyway. I just put it in as a disclaimer.

I hope you can keep us updated with whatever happens with the taxman, at best or worst, it is a grey area with current laws. Good luck fella.

[WeightGain3000]

Average joe, Really glad you took the time to write the long email, Genuinely appreciated.
I dont suppose your based in london are you?

[averagejoe]

Average joe, Really glad you took the time to write the long email, Genuinely appreciated.
I dont suppose your based in london are you?

your welcome weightgain, no iam not based in london. feel free to PM me anytime, but always check for yourself what I/anybody is saying.

a useful tool for the meaning of words is blacks law dictionary 5th edition, its free online. its amazing how words we think we understand change their meaning in Law.

take that word understand for instance, when a police officer stops you and asks you something, he will ask do you understand, what he is actually asking is do you STAND UNDER me, ie are you giving consent to my higher authority!!! so you cannever say yes, because we are are equal in the eyes of the Law.

when they read you that statement of anything you say may be taken down and used against you in a court of law etc, what they omit to say is, that it will never be used for your defence, only against it.

good luck, we are all in this together. and dont forget, if you do not know your unalienable rights, then you do not have any.

[C8H10N4O2]

your welcome weightgain, no iam not based in london. feel free to PM me anytime, but always check for yourself what I/anybody is saying.

a useful tool for the meaning of words is blacks law dictionary 5th edition, its free online. its amazing how words we think we understand change their meaning in Law.

take that word understand for instance, when a police officer stops you and asks you something, he will ask do you understand, what he is actually asking is do you STAND UNDER me, ie are you giving consent to my higher authority!!! so you cannever say yes, because we are are equal in the eyes of the Law.

when they read you that statement of anything you say may be taken down and used against you in a court of law etc, what they omit to say is, that it will never be used for your defence, only against it.

good luck, we are all in this together. and dont forget, if you do not know your unalienable rights, then you do not have any.

How does any of this apply to "keeping online poker illegal" in the United States?

[averagejoe]

How does any of this apply to "keeping online poker illegal" in the United States?

some poster early in the thread mentions tax and poker, somebody replies to said tax on poker earnings, hence the law is mentioned, somebody replies with snipits about tax, and the Law, and then other things are mentioned about the Law and our rights.

i hope that helps.

what has tax got to do with keeping poker online illegal? what does local taxes have to do with keeping online poker illegal, i dont see mods questioning the early posters about said subject matter.

when we have posters who do not even understand the difference between illegal and unlawful then perhaps i have mistakenly tried to add my 2 cents worth.

As the thread opener has a title with illegal in it, perhaps its in everyones intrest to understand at least the diffrence between illegal and unlawful, unless we all want to continue to be bonded slaves.

nearly every thread on here digresses to other subjects, and i havant seen a ''what has this got to do with that'' from the mods, is there a reason for this.

best wishes, without ill will and vexation.

[averagejoe]

Did some research, gambling and taxes:
http://www.wwwebtax.com/deductions_m...ing_losses.htm

Basically, any losses can deducted up to any winnings, i.e if I win +y but lose , I can deduct from taxes, and only pay taxes on the net . However, unlike capital gains, gambling losses don't carry over.

One small detail, see #4 here:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2178248_gamb...eductible.html

Hi economist,

that first website sure looks pretty, but amongst all that legal jargon, and links i dont actually see the actual Law that requires USA citizens to pay tax on any earnings poker or work related, the next time somebody accepts their IRS contract, to pay tax could you/they enquire to actually see the Law, it sure would help to clean up the confusion, or perhaps its the confusion they rely on to hoodwink/steal our hard earned money, it reminds me of the emperor has no clothes. LOL.

[grimReaper]

Hi economist,

that first website sure looks pretty, but amongst all that legal jargon, and links i dont actually see the actual Law that requires USA citizens to pay tax on any earnings poker or work related, the next time somebody accepts their IRS contract, to pay tax could you/they enquire to actually see the Law, it sure would help to clean up the confusion, or perhaps its the confusion they rely on to hoodwink/steal our hard earned money, it reminds me of the emperor has no clothes. LOL.

Oh, I was under the impression that taxes must be paid on all sources of income (and that legalizing it would make more enforceable).

[C8H10N4O2]

Hi economist,

that first website sure looks pretty, but amongst all that legal jargon, and links i dont actually see the actual Law that requires USA citizens to pay tax on any earnings poker or work related, the next time somebody accepts their IRS contract, to pay tax could you/they enquire to actually see the Law, it sure would help to clean up the confusion, or perhaps its the confusion they rely on to hoodwink/steal our hard earned money, it reminds me of the emperor has no clothes. LOL.

Yet another nonsense statement. You'll get completely hosed if you make enough money in poker and don't claim it in the US.

[averagejoe]

Yet another nonsense statement. You'll get completely hosed if you make enough money in poker and don't claim it in the US.

well why dont you show us the actual law in the usa that requires usa citizens to pay tax on earnings, poker or flipping burgers. the only nonsense i see, is all this acceptence of hearsay thats its legal this and illegal that, withought anyone having a clue about the difference between legal and Lawful, one poster has dodged this question on this thread, and it wouldant suprise me if you dont know either and dodge it too. Its because of this ignorance that they get away with fleecing mugs who havant a clue whats going on.

now you may just like to bend over and take whatever the IRS gives you, but im sure others would actually like to see the Law. me for one, with a debt in the usa, of over 14 trillion dollars, these shysters count on peoples ignorance. now if you want to act as a gatekeeper, on here and for them, then thats your choice, but you are doing a great diservice to many.

the problem is its people making utterly stupid pig ignoranat statements like youll get completly hosed and dont claim it in the US, without having a clue what is going on, and how the deception is working.

you carry on paying it sonny, you obviously have given your consent to it, others may not be willing to consent without seeing the actual proof ie THE LAW, so do us all a favour and produce it.

best wishes

without ill well and vexation.

averagejoe freeman on the land.

[travz21]

It's called "income tax" for a reason. Any incoming money is taxed. We don't get to pick and choose what we want to pay taxes on over here.

[C8H10N4O2]

well why dont you show us the actual law in the usa that requires usa citizens to pay tax on earnings, poker or flipping burgers. the only nonsense i see, is all this acceptence of hearsay thats its legal this and illegal that, withought anyone having a clue about the difference between legal and Lawful, one poster has dodged this question on this thread, and it wouldant suprise me if you dont know either and dodge it too. Its because of this ignorance that they get away with fleecing mugs who havant a clue whats going on.

now you may just like to bend over and take whatever the IRS gives you, but im sure others would actually like to see the Law. me for one, with a debt in the usa, of over 14 trillion dollars, these shysters count on peoples ignorance. now if you want to act as a gatekeeper, on here and for them, then thats your choice, but you are doing a great diservice to many.

the problem is its people making utterly stupid pig ignoranat statements like youll get completly hosed and dont claim it in the US, without having a clue what is going on, and how the deception is working.

you carry on paying it sonny, you obviously have given your consent to it, others may not be willing to consent without seeing the actual proof ie THE LAW, so do us all a favour and produce it.

best wishes

without ill well and vexation.

averagejoe freeman on the land.

Lmao, why don't you say all that nonsensical BS to a person I know who decided not to pay income tax and finally got caught at 60+years of age and is now making monthly payments for the rest of his life on a debt in excess of a million US dollars. He did go to court over it, and the court upheld that he owed a debt that he'll never be able to repay.

But you are right dude... you don't have to pay income tax in the U.S. Wtf was I thinking? why don't you move over here and start your revolution. I'd love to see how your nonsensical statements hold up in court.

I'm not even going to bother reading through tons of legal crap to prove my point, but just check out the wikipedia article on all of this. The wikipedia article has citations you can go and verify etc, but it's an enormous waste of my time to do so myself, so I'll resort to the laziness of just showing you the article and allowing you to do the "investigation" work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_...to_tax_incomes

One little snip from the article:

In Central Illinois Public Service Co. v. United States, 435 U.S. 21 (1978), the U.S. Supreme Court confirmed that wages and income are not identical as far as taxes on income are concerned, because income not only includes wages, but any other gains as well.

[grimReaper]

well why dont you show us the actual law in the usa that requires usa citizens to pay tax on earnings, poker or flipping burgers. the only nonsense i see, is all this acceptence of hearsay thats its legal this and illegal that, withought anyone having a clue about the difference between legal and Lawful, one poster has dodged this question on this thread, and it wouldant suprise me if you dont know either and dodge it too. Its because of this ignorance that they get away with fleecing mugs who havant a clue whats going on.

now you may just like to bend over and take whatever the IRS gives you, but im sure others would actually like to see the Law. me for one, with a debt in the usa, of over 14 trillion dollars, these shysters count on peoples ignorance. now if you want to act as a gatekeeper, on here and for them, then thats your choice, but you are doing a great diservice to many.

the problem is its people making utterly stupid pig ignoranat statements like youll get completly hosed and dont claim it in the US, without having a clue what is going on, and how the deception is working.

you carry on paying it sonny, you obviously have given your consent to it, others may not be willing to consent without seeing the actual proof ie THE LAW, so do us all a favour and produce it.

best wishes

without ill well and vexation.

averagejoe freeman on the land.

I'm not studying law, so I don't know the details of any law relating to taxation, but are you arguing that the IRS is unconstitutional (if so then I agree)?

[C8H10N4O2]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/us...1----000-.html

In a more concise summed up version...

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsieg.../JustNoLaw.htm

[averagejoe]

Lmao, why don't you say all that nonsensical BS to a person I know who decided not to pay income tax and finally got caught at 60+years of age and is now making monthly payments for the rest of his life on a debt in excess of a million US dollars. He did go to court over it, and the court upheld that he owed a debt that he'll never be able to repay.

But you are right dude... you don't have to pay income tax in the U.S. Wtf was I thinking? why don't you move over here and start your revolution. I'd love to see how your nonsensical statements hold up in court.

I'm not even going to bother reading through tons of legal crap to prove my point, but just check out the wikipedia article on all of this. The wikipedia article has citations you can go and verify etc, but it's an enormous waste of my time to do so myself, so I'll resort to the laziness of just showing you the article and allowing you to do the "investigation" work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_...to_tax_incomes

One little snip from the article:

I take it you are not producing the 'law' like the IRS which requires 'us' to pay tax on poker earnings, for us all to see then? well theres a suprise, why does such a simple request from the 'its legal its legal' crowd meet with the same response, ie smoke and mirrors?

you seem utterly confused on what a 'person' actually is? 10 seconds looking it up in a blacks law dictionary 5th edition, free download online, will help unravel your ignorance.

wikipedia, lol, if thats where you are sourcing info its no wonder you are confused.

you and the IRS can not show the Law because there isant any. dont you think the IRS, and it has had tens of thousands of inquiries on this, would produce the law if there was one?

they are obviously nonsensical to you, as you dont have any idea what the diffrence is between legal and lawful, and illegal and unlawful, you obviously do not understand what a person is as opposed to a human being occording to law. Hence its best for you to continue to be a good little bonded slave, as opposed to a freeman on the land. Thats your choice and you are 'free' to make that decision LOL, (thats irony before your little one liner)

as its an enormous waste of your time to spend asking the IRS or searching for the actual law, which will save you money, then thats your choice.

As i am not as lazy as yourself, i have asked the UK taxman for the law and i am still waiting for them to produce it, they requested me to go to the library to find it,, despite waitng months they are unable to produce the Law, as others have requested in the usa the same and the IRS cannot produce their mythical law,.

why would i want to move to the usa and start a revoloution? have you lost your marbles? all i am asking is the simplset of question, to see THE LAW THAT REQUIRES ME/YOU/US TO PAY TAX ON POKER WINNINGS, how you deduce that i need to move to the usa and start a revoloution is hysterical, roflmfao.

of course if you consent to rules and regulations then you will be punished like your 'friend' has been if you break rules and regulations, thats diffrent to non consent and upholding the Law.

So, the next time the IRS demands your tax, ask to see the law as you are clearly confused, and offer to put the money they are DEMANDING' into a holding account until you can actually verify that the LAW actually exists. What fool would pay money on hearsay and rumors? without seeing if there was any actual law regarding one to do so?

[averagejoe]

It's called "income tax" for a reason. Any incoming money is taxed. We don't get to pick and choose what we want to pay taxes on over here.

and we have things in the UK called acts of parliment, statues and legislation, etc. notice they are not called laws, we have the road traffic act, and they sure are acting, i take it you understand what the word act means?

you do get to choose, you are oblivious to the choices obviously, you have chosen/consented to the rules and regulations as opposed to consenting actual laws.

so, perhaps you can help me understand here, can you show me the law that requires everyone to pay tax on pker earnings/winnings etc. or are you just paying on hearsay and rumours?

we have things called VAT in the UK, value added tax, so wheres the value there then?

[averagejoe]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/us...1----000-.html

In a more concise summed up version...

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsieg.../JustNoLaw.htm

thanks for the links dew,

that one from cornwell law school, LOL, states legislature, and US CODE, i cannot see the actual LAW? they are dealing in reules and regulations as opposed to law, shouldant they be calling themselves cornwell school of legislature and codes, as they sure dont quote any LAW there LOL, all i see is CODES, we do understand what CODE means lawfully speaking dont we?

[averagejoe]

Oh, I was under the impression that taxes must be paid on all sources of income (and that legalizing it would make more enforceable).

Hi economist,

yes lagalising anything makes collecting cash more enforceable, thats why they use the word legal as opposed to lawful, hell i could make up a rule or regulation that if you put an eggshell in the wrong colored trashcan (in the UK we have 5 diffrent colored trashcans) then i can legally enforce a rule to request people who consent to it, to do so, if they dont put the shell in the correct colored bin, then i can easily legally enforce my rule with a cash fine LOL. but if you withdraw consent to be bound by this rule, you can put the eggshell in any colored trashcan. ( this rule is being legally used in the UK his very minute) and avoid your hard earned cash going to these shysters and interlopers.

notice when and how judges and lawyers use the word legal from lawful etc, why dont they make it lawful to make things enforcable? ( because they cannot) they rely on our ignorance and stupidity to keep the cash flowing into their coffers.

[C8H10N4O2]

Oh, you must be right. With over a million lawyers in the United States, there's gotta be a massive loophole to paying taxes. Out of all those lawyers not a single one would go after that loophole at all. As I said earlier, If you don't pay taxes you get hosed. You can listen to and apply the ravings of a lunatic online and spend time in prison. Or just pay your taxes. Hmm, I wonder which one seems to be the more reasonable choice?

As i am not as lazy as yourself

I am not lazy overall, but I am lazy in frivolous pursuits. Glad you aren't lazy in this area though.


Also, I never said a "friend" of mine. I said a person I know. Which is a really poor mistake by someone so concerned with minor technicalities with words that in general discussion language do not exist.

you do get to choose, you are oblivious to the choices obviously, you have chosen/consented to the rules and regulations as opposed to consenting actual laws.

Lastly, here is a link to someone who by no means consented to anything. He wasn't "oblivious to his choices" (as you would say) yet, the end result is the exact thing I have said. Don't pay taxes, get hosed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_and_Elaine_Brown

You can continue with your ramblings, and you excitement in looking up words in Black's Law Dictionary and trying to prove invalid and impractical ideas. It's pretty funny, and you've been relatively entertaining. You actually remind me quite much of someone who used to be on these forums, but just as everything with that person eventually lost its entertainment value, so has it with you. I do find your screen name really funny though.

[travz21]

What the fuck? Dew explains everything and subparjoe can't grasp the concept and starts bashing the US?

[grndizzle]

I don't know how taxes work in the UK but we don't "pay" taxes in the US, they take taxes here. They take about 30% of my gross pay before I even get my paycheck.

I guess if you didn't make a ridiculous amount of money under the table from playing poker or some illegal business you could get away without reporting it. If you don't have a full time job and all of a sudden you're buying a house or depositing thousands of dollars into your bank account you'll end up getting audited by the IRS to find out where that money came from.

I don't know if any of you guys from across the pond are familiar with Al Capone (the most notorious prohibition era gangster in the US)? He was responsible for hundreds of murders and other crimes in the Chicago area, but the only charge he couldn't beat was the federal tax evasion charge that put him in prison until he died.

Failure to pay income taxes in the US can result in losing your house and anything else of value that you own.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc201.html