Bounty Tournaments.

[frob23]

So today I decided to play a few $2.00+$0.20 bounty sit and gos on a site. After playing 3 of them... I was up a grand total of $0.60. That's like a 9.1% ROI. And it just gets me frustrated. I know it's only three games but I can't believe how I just can't seem to make progress.

On game I was put out by QJ when I ended up shoving with AK (I was short stacked). Normally I would rant but that's fairly standard in a bounty where you have someone well covered (he had 4x the chips I did). He hit and I was out. I can't fault him for that because I'd probably make a similar play depending on the situation. It just stinks that I can't seem to get anywhere.

Even the bounty I won... I only knocked out two people. The 3rd and 2nd place players. I really think there has to be something I am doing wrong to not maximize my wins in the bounty games.

Anyone a master of the bounty games and willing to share some advice?

[powrdragn]

I'm nowhere near a bounty tournament master. For that matter, I haven't played many tournaments at all recently.

But, I do enjoy the bounty (or Knockout) tournaments. I played them just as I would a normal tournament. You just have one more factor to figure in when somebody shoves.

It also gives you some buy-in protection and effectively creates a virtual overlay for the tournament. I've played in two wher eI didn't even make the money, but I eliminated four or five people along the way to turn a small profit.

I wouldn't focus on the eliminations too much. Just play your game and consider the bounties to be bonus money.

[frob23]

I've seen the ones on FTP and they're a little different from Nordica. On Nordica it's $1+$1 bounty. So the bounties make up half of the prize pool, so there is slightly more motivation to go after them. In the $3 KO tournaments on FTP it's $2.50+$0.50.

This may not make a huge difference but I think it does. It also makes winning a much larger deal. The difference between 1st and 2nd is $2 more than it seems from the lobby (since there are two bounties, yours and his, in play). This often means the difference between 1st and 2nd is more than 2nd place pays total.

So obviously, playing to win is important. But busting 2 people pretty much puts you at even in these games... busting 3 and you're showing a profit even if you then lose and finish outside the money. You would need to put 7 people out on FTP to show a profit (and at that point you'd be in the money for a single table game anyway).

Do you think having such a large, relative, bounty changes how you would play?

[Vito_Nuccio]

I avoid the bounty tournaments. The hit to the pay table is too severe. The bounties also increase the possibility of a call and an all-in bet means much less than in a normal tourney. I have seen where the first pay level of bounties do not even cover the buy-in.

The only advice I have besides not to play is realize what game you are in. Big bets will get called and you will be forced into stack decisions more often.

Later,

[phosphorescence]

i play in the $10 and $24 90-man bounty tourneys on FTP all the time.
to be honest i don't even think about the bounties, i just play my normal game and concentrate on getting into the money.

you see some crazy players going all in over the top of the short stack's all in with all kinds of garbage, risking their tournament life just to get a small bounty.

another thing you have to think about is if late in the tourney you are short stacked and are pushing to steal the blinds with any two cards, the fact that you have a bounty on your head makes it more likely you'll get a loose call from the blinds.

personally, i'm with Vito_Nuccio in that i prefer tournies without the bounties (bigger prize pool), but FTP don't offer any regular 90-man tournies (at these stakes) without KO :-/

so in general, just play your normal game, perhaps even a little bit more conservative, then when you have a monster you're more likely to get a loose call and can double up.

[liladypokerpro]

Yep I'm with Vito on this one I don't even fool with the bounty tourneys because like he said the hit to the payout is just too much to even consider. I played a few a while back on Nordica just to see what they were like, and although I did take out a few people, it was still just not worth it overall.

[PointerJake]

I like the sit n go bountys on nordica every now and again. If you place first in one of those, that means you've probably knocked out at least 3 ppl. and the profit on a first place finish is very good. I will say I play them very loose, especially early in the tournament. And I have it in my mind that I am going for first or bust. It seems to work for me. But I only play 5-10 of them a week. Right now I'm placing first in 2-3 a week. I usually only play them when I had a good day on the cash tables, so I can play my loose style in them with no worries of loosing.

[powrdragn]

From what it sounds like, I definitely like the FTP structure better. The FTP structure pretty much has a normal tournament with another way to get your hands on some loot.

The Nordica setup makes it hard to win anything significant without busting people out.

[liladypokerpro]

Oh yeah Jake the SnGs are not nearly as bad as the Multis...but yes dragn, the FT version is definitely pretty different from Nordica's version.

[rakmupagain]

Bounties are just a way of spreading out prize money to entire field. In the long run a winning player would profit less in bounty tourneys relative to standard prize pool.
On the other hand, it benefits losing players. Players who very rarely make it to the money will receive some of it back obviously.

This being said, I think they are fun, and if its 10% of prize pool, what the heck. So if your a losing player, stick to bounty tournaments. If your a winning player, (be honest) your best off to avoid them.
One factor that i didnt think to bring into this is the fact that more dead money might be attracted to this format.

[frob23]

I have to be honest... another appeal of the bounty tournaments, for me at this time, is the comp points. I am trying to clear a bonus that is based on the number of comp points I have. On the site (on the Merge network), I am doing this on... I have a fairly small bankroll. So the fewer games, the better, even if I am winning at both.

A standard $2+$0.20 sit and go offers 10 comp points... the bounty ones offer 35. That is what appealed to me at first.

And, while I am a winning player at sit and gos (with a 6-7% average ROI)... it's not a super strong winning rate and the bounty tournaments are easily weaker than the normal sit and gos. Any time you have people hitting 900 chips and open-shoving (at 10/20), you know you're in a good spot. Granted... you're going to need to take more risks than usual... and flip for the bounties.

I am still on the fence as to whether or not these are worth the hassle for both the comp points and everything else.

[GainerRakeback]

I've played bounty tournaments at Ultimate Bet several times. Usually the $4 + .40 which pays $1 for each player you knock out. The advantage is that if you knock out a few players along the way, you get part (or more) of your entry fee back even if you don't finish in-the-money. You feel more satisfied that it wasn't a total waste. BUT, the key is to play the tourney regularly as you normally would. Don't try to make calls against shorter stacked players just to get their bounty. When you and four others do it, you probably aren't gonna win. Play normal and the bountys will come to you. And yes, if you're short-stacked and finally go all in, one or more big stacked players will call since they have little chips to lose, and a bounty to gain. It's happened to me with a better starting hand several times. The way to avoid that it is to go all in earlier with a stack sufficient enough to make all players wary of losing so they fold. You may have to pick a more marginal hand to do it (like any A x, 10J, or even ducks) and hope others fold, or you get lucky. Once you get a stack back, play normal again.

[powrdragn]

It looks like most of us are in agreement on how to handle these tournaments for the most part.

I would simply say to be more aware that your shove has a higher percentage of getting called, so keep your all-in standards a little higher, even late in the event.

[frob23]

To say you have more of a chance to be called is an understatement.

I had TT and flopped a set on a 5-6-T board... another player bet and I just shoved... of course he called (I expected this because he'd been calling everyone and gotten very lucky so far).

He turns over KQ. Naturally the turn and river were J-A... but I'd still love a call there every single time. I mean... calling a shove without even Ace high... it's awesome.

Yes, it stinks if you're card-dead (although you can abuse the stacks smaller than you for chips even without cards)... and it stinks when someone makes a bad call and gets lucky. It's a high variance game, for sure... but it's not all bad.

I wouldn't play them, personally, if the comp-point appeal wasn't there. That is what keeps pulling me.

[liladypokerpro]

Frob, have you tried the Diamonds are Forever SnGs yet? They pay huge comp points.....

[frob23]

Originally Posted by liladypokerpro Frob, have you tried the Diamonds are Forever SnGs yet? They pay huge comp points.....

The $5+$0.50 Diamond are forever sit and go gives 45 comp points. Which is a lot... but is proportionally less than the 6 handed $2+$0.20 Bounty games which give 35.

On top of that, this account has less than $15 on it. That's already too little for the $2 games... the $5 games would bring that account to zero real fast with just a couple bad games. Not that this would be a terrible thing either.

Note: I accept that I am giving up some money by playing the bounties (I figure at this point it's averaging 35c a game)... but I really need to clear this. I have this money for free and am willing to lose the $10 I started with while trying to clear the rest... otherwise I don't care. If I lose it all... that's fine. I just hate having a site that's got $10 on it... and is in limbo... I would like to just get it over with.

[liladypokerpro]

That's cool Frob...wasn't sure what br you were running with so just thought I'd mention the DaF tourneys in case you hadn't seen them.

It's not just the registration comp points bonus you can earn in those. As you play them, you unlock cards, from the 2 of diamonds all the way up to the A of diamonds, and for each unlocked card you reach, you get a new bonus. Just playing in your first DaF tourney earns you the 2 of diamonds as well as a $2 + $0.20 coupon to play in any tourney. I can't remember how much the payout scale is for each level you achieve, but I do know that it goes up to the 4-digit pay range.

[liladypokerpro]

Here's the link explaining more about the DaF tourneys...in case anyone might find interest in it...

https://secure.pokernordica.com/diamondsareforever.html

[frob23]

Actually... I might do one of those... since 1 is all that matters anyway... simply because it's got the $2.20 coupon to go with it.

I'm never going to play $25 in blackjack though... still...

are you sure it's still running... it seems to be for the month of July only.

The "Diamonds Are Forever" promo will run from July 1-31 2008 (inclusive). At midnight (server time) on July 31 2008 the checklist will cease recording completed tasks and any outstanding prizes will be tallied.

[liladypokerpro]

Yes they haven't updated the info screen as of yet, but the tournaments are still running.

If you do play, best of luck to you